Two K Date Sub Variations

Dick Herman · 07-06-2015, 08:02 PM

Here are two sub-variations of the K (1934) date P08 manufactured by Mauser (S/42).

Attempting to rearm, Hitler started to mass produce weapons with secret codes to initially hide their activities. The K was stamped on the receiver breech where the acceptance date usually went. The toggle links were stamped with S/42 to hide the manufacturer's identity.

These P08s represent the 2nd and 4th sub-variations of the K date P08. The 2nd variation is distinctive with numerous upper case S stamping marks and the front sight mount set back from the muzzle. The 4th variation has fewer markings than the other K date variations and was smaller production.

Dick Herman · 07-06-2015, 08:18 PM

Enjoy

Dick Herman · 07-06-2015, 08:21 PM

Enjoy

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2015, 09:09 PM

Enjoy, indeed! Thanks.
dju

nukem556 · 07-06-2015, 09:13 PM

Those are some sweet Ks........It always puzzled me about the front sight setback on those. It seems the barrel configuration had been standardized for many years, and there had to be some reason to go out of their way to change it?

Norme · 07-06-2015, 09:29 PM

Beautiful guns Dick, thanks for the "show and tell".
Regards, Norm

Ron Wood · 07-06-2015, 10:10 PM

Wow! Outstanding!!!

DonVoigt · 07-06-2015, 11:14 PM

REally nice, thanks for posting.
One really must wonder about the front sight change logic- if there was any!

Dick Herman · 07-06-2015, 11:51 PM

As with all manufacturing companies getting the product delivered is essential. I believe that the muzzle mount set back was a manufacturing error. The pistols were shipped with the out of spec barrels to meet their delivery commitments.

ithacaartist · 07-07-2015, 03:48 AM

Great guns, Dick, thanks for the mini exposition! I like the Gothic S stamped all over!

Ron Wood · 07-07-2015, 09:19 AM

The set back sight barrel looks a lot like those barrels made by Hämmerli for the Swiss Lugers imported by Stoeger.

sheepherder · 07-07-2015, 11:21 AM

Very nice!

Dick, is it that the sight is set back or the barrel band is actually longer???

kurusu · 07-07-2015, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Very nice!

Dick, is it that the sight is set back or the barrel band is actually longer???

Good eyes Rich! The barrel band is definitely longer.

Dick Herman · 07-07-2015, 12:15 PM

With a dial caliper I measured the barrel band length. The 2nd sub variation K date band length is .665 inches while other P08 bands measure .582 inches. The sight base on the 2nd sub variation K date is .122 inches from the muzzle while other P08s measure .049 inches.

You guys have a great eye for detail.

sheepherder · 07-07-2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

With a dial caliper I measured the barrel band length. The 2nd sub variation K date band length is .665 inches while other P08 bands measure .582 inches. The sight base on the 2nd sub variation K date is .122 inches from the muzzle while other P08s measure .049 inches.

Dick, why do you suppose this was done???

It's hard to imagine Mauser making a mistake...Maybe like Ron suggested, the barrels were sub-contracted and used regardless???

DavidJayUden · 07-07-2015, 02:13 PM

"You guys have a great eye for detail. "

That's why they pay us the big bucks...
dju

Dick Herman · 07-07-2015, 04:19 PM

The 2nd sub variation K date Luger is the only P08 that I am aware of with the longer barrel band and sight base set back. It is very possible that this feature was a result of a sub contractor tool setup.

These barrels were used to complete the pistols. We know from later Luger variations that Mauser/DWM kept inventories of unused components and never threw anything away.

Dick Herman · 07-08-2015, 01:56 AM

Thought I would share some history with ya'll.

I started surfing through the Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia searching for a clue regarding the unique foresight bed on the earlier of these K dates. There is a picture of a Commercial Mauser Banner Luger with this foresight bed. The caption with the picture reads, "short lived early Mauser pattern found in mid-range K dated (1934) military P.08s with the longer muzzle band and the foresight bed set back." According to the narrative there were approximately 3,800 of this sub-variation manufactured.

I could not find any other reference to this longer muzzle band and the foresight bed set back mentioned, but it is a very large information source.

In 1925 the Reichswehr initiated an armament expansion program. The Reichswehr developed the secret German manufacturers codes we give Hitler credit for. Starting in 1925 a year code was developed to 1935. The P.08 years we are familiar with are K (1934) and G (1935). Additionally a alpha/number code was developed for manufacturers. S was for small arms to be followed by a number for the manufacturer. 42 was the number for Mauser. That is how we got S/42.

sheepherder · 07-08-2015, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

There is a picture of a Commercial Mauser Banner Luger with this foresight bed. The caption with the picture reads, "short lived early Mauser pattern found in mid-range K dated (1934) military P.08s with the longer muzzle band and the foresight bed set back."

I think that is on page 612 of the DVD.

LU1900 · 07-09-2015, 06:01 AM

The barrel length following the Treaty of Versailles was to be max 100 m/m

07-06-2015, 10:10 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Wow! Outstanding!!! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-06-2015, 11:51 PM	#9
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	K Date Sight As with all manufacturing companies getting the product delivered is essential. I believe that the muzzle mount set back was a manufacturing error. The pistols were shipped with the out of spec barrels to meet their delivery commitments.

07-07-2015, 03:48 AM	#10
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,400 Thanks: 7,555 Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,393 Posts	Great guns, Dick, thanks for the mini exposition! I like the Gothic S stamped all over! __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

07-07-2015, 09:19 AM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	The set back sight barrel looks a lot like those barrels made by Hämmerli for the Swiss Lugers imported by Stoeger. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-07-2015, 11:21 AM	#12
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	Very nice! Dick, is it that the sight is set back or the barrel band is actually longer??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-06-2015, 09:09 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Enjoy, indeed! Thanks. dju

07-06-2015, 09:13 PM	#5
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Those are some sweet Ks........It always puzzled me about the front sight setback on those. It seems the barrel configuration had been standardized for many years, and there had to be some reason to go out of their way to change it?

07-06-2015, 09:29 PM	#6
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Beautiful guns Dick, thanks for the "show and tell". Regards, Norm

07-06-2015, 11:14 PM	#8
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,356 Times in 2,041 Posts	REally nice, thanks for posting. One really must wonder about the front sight change logic- if there was any!

07-07-2015, 12:15 PM	#14
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	With a dial caliper I measured the barrel band length. The 2nd sub variation K date band length is .665 inches while other P08 bands measure .582 inches. The sight base on the 2nd sub variation K date is .122 inches from the muzzle while other P08s measure .049 inches. You guys have a great eye for detail.

07-07-2015, 02:13 PM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"You guys have a great eye for detail. " That's why they pay us the big bucks... dju

07-07-2015, 04:19 PM	#17
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	The 2nd sub variation K date Luger is the only P08 that I am aware of with the longer barrel band and sight base set back. It is very possible that this feature was a result of a sub contractor tool setup. These barrels were used to complete the pistols. We know from later Luger variations that Mauser/DWM kept inventories of unused components and never threw anything away.

07-08-2015, 01:56 AM	#18
Dick Herman User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 302 Thanks: 496 Thanked 356 Times in 138 Posts	Thought I would share some history with ya'll. I started surfing through the Gortz & Sturgess encyclopedia searching for a clue regarding the unique foresight bed on the earlier of these K dates. There is a picture of a Commercial Mauser Banner Luger with this foresight bed. The caption with the picture reads, "short lived early Mauser pattern found in mid-range K dated (1934) military P.08s with the longer muzzle band and the foresight bed set back." According to the narrative there were approximately 3,800 of this sub-variation manufactured. I could not find any other reference to this longer muzzle band and the foresight bed set back mentioned, but it is a very large information source. In 1925 the Reichswehr initiated an armament expansion program. The Reichswehr developed the secret German manufacturers codes we give Hitler credit for. Starting in 1925 a year code was developed to 1935. The P.08 years we are familiar with are K (1934) and G (1935). Additionally a alpha/number code was developed for manufacturers. S was for small arms to be followed by a number for the manufacturer. 42 was the number for Mauser. That is how we got S/42.

07-09-2015, 06:01 AM	#20
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 914 Thanks: 49 Thanked 475 Times in 200 Posts	The barrel length following the Treaty of Versailles was to be max 100 m/m __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

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