Erfurt luger

johnnylo · 09-03-2003, 03:15 PM

I was wondering if anyone can tell the date of manufacture on my luger. Everything is matching, the only part missing is the original dated receiver which was replaced with a new blank one. the luger only has imperial markings, the serial number is 5792 over what looks like a c.
There is also a stock lug present.

I am curious as I want to try and find the proper dated block to spice it up.

Edward Tinker · 09-03-2003, 04:03 PM

jlo,

When you say block and receiver, can you take a look at the technical information on your left and tell us which parts are incorrect?

There are original without dated receivers, but as you said, since the toggle must be Erfurt marked, something is amiss?

Ed

johnnylo · 09-04-2003, 12:46 PM

Hi Ed,

This pistol has every part marked with erfurt imperial markings, looks like a D or a B with a crown over it, and the last two digits of the serial number on all the small parts 92. I can't understand why someone would change the receiver with a blank one. As far as I know Erfurt never had a blank undated receiver. It also looks a lot newer than the rest of the pistol so I know it does not belong there.

Anyone know if there is a way to tell the date that should be on the receiver? Only things i can think of to mention is it has a stock lug, hold open incorporated but no markings indicating arsenal work since they would have been on the receiver,serial number 5972 over a c.

thanks John

John Sabato · 09-04-2003, 01:04 PM

Just a theory... the receiver may have been battle (or otherwise badly) damaged and replaced with a new unmarked one by either an arsenal or a gunsmith at some time in it's life...

Likely a commercial receiver... is ther serial number on the left side of the receiver like a military gun? or is it completely blank? Any evidence that it had a number and it was removed by grinding and repolishing?

Doubs · 09-04-2003, 01:53 PM

Does the receiver have the Imperial proof/acceptance stamps on the right forward side of the receiver... including the Erfurt Eagle (appears to be holding a cross in one claw and a wine glass in the other)?

You don't mention the chambering. Is it 9mm or 7.65mm?

If the proofs I ask about are present, it may have been reworked following WW1 for commercial sale. The date will have been removed and possibly the entire receiver reblued. I have a reworked Erfurt in 7.65mm that has had the date removed but only the front part of the receiver was reblued. It was well done and it takes a close look to see the blending of the two finishes.

With the stock lug being present, it's likely that your Erfurt dates to one of three years: 1913, 1914 or 1916. Erfurt Lugers dated 1915 are not found and it's assumed that they made none dated that year. In late 1916 (Nov., I believe) a directive provided that all receivers would be notched for the Artillery rear sight. MOST - but not all - Erfurt receivers after that date were notched. The suffix letter "c" is low enough that it doesn't preclude any of the years when the stock lug was included on the grip. That, I'm afraid, is about as close as can be gotten to establishing a specific year.

johnnylo · 09-04-2003, 05:46 PM

I have looked again and found something. There are no markings anywhere on the outside of the receiver. On the inside on the bottom of the locking lug on the front bottom part of the receiver there is a Z or an N in a circle. There is also the letters T, G, K,and D stamped around the lug. There are no faint signs of anything on the outside.

I am guessing this is some sort of after market part.

the pistol is 9mm

Thanks for all your help.

09-03-2003, 03:15 PM	#1
johnnylo User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Erfurt luger I was wondering if anyone can tell the date of manufacture on my luger. Everything is matching, the only part missing is the original dated receiver which was replaced with a new blank one. the luger only has imperial markings, the serial number is 5792 over what looks like a c. There is also a stock lug present. I am curious as I want to try and find the proper dated block to spice it up. __________________ jlo

09-03-2003, 04:03 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	jlo, When you say block and receiver, can you take a look at the technical information on your left and tell us which parts are incorrect? There are original without dated receivers, but as you said, since the toggle must be Erfurt marked, something is amiss? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-04-2003, 12:46 PM	#3
johnnylo User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Ed, This pistol has every part marked with erfurt imperial markings, looks like a D or a B with a crown over it, and the last two digits of the serial number on all the small parts 92. I can't understand why someone would change the receiver with a blank one. As far as I know Erfurt never had a blank undated receiver. It also looks a lot newer than the rest of the pistol so I know it does not belong there. Anyone know if there is a way to tell the date that should be on the receiver? Only things i can think of to mention is it has a stock lug, hold open incorporated but no markings indicating arsenal work since they would have been on the receiver,serial number 5972 over a c. thanks John __________________ jlo

09-04-2003, 01:04 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Just a theory... the receiver may have been battle (or otherwise badly) damaged and replaced with a new unmarked one by either an arsenal or a gunsmith at some time in it's life... Likely a commercial receiver... is ther serial number on the left side of the receiver like a military gun? or is it completely blank? Any evidence that it had a number and it was removed by grinding and repolishing? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-04-2003, 05:46 PM	#6
johnnylo User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have looked again and found something. There are no markings anywhere on the outside of the receiver. On the inside on the bottom of the locking lug on the front bottom part of the receiver there is a Z or an N in a circle. There is also the letters T, G, K,and D stamped around the lug. There are no faint signs of anything on the outside. I am guessing this is some sort of after market part. the pistol is 9mm Thanks for all your help. __________________ jlo

09-04-2003, 01:53 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,735 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,767 Times in 584 Posts	Does the receiver have the Imperial proof/acceptance stamps on the right forward side of the receiver... including the Erfurt Eagle (appears to be holding a cross in one claw and a wine glass in the other)? You don't mention the chambering. Is it 9mm or 7.65mm? If the proofs I ask about are present, it may have been reworked following WW1 for commercial sale. The date will have been removed and possibly the entire receiver reblued. I have a reworked Erfurt in 7.65mm that has had the date removed but only the front part of the receiver was reblued. It was well done and it takes a close look to see the blending of the two finishes. With the stock lug being present, it's likely that your Erfurt dates to one of three years: 1913, 1914 or 1916. Erfurt Lugers dated 1915 are not found and it's assumed that they made none dated that year. In late 1916 (Nov., I believe) a directive provided that all receivers would be notched for the Artillery rear sight. MOST - but not all - Erfurt receivers after that date were notched. The suffix letter "c" is low enough that it doesn't preclude any of the years when the stock lug was included on the grip. That, I'm afraid, is about as close as can be gotten to establishing a specific year.