Sear Safety Function?

Jack Lawman · 05-18-2003, 07:13 PM

I just examined my Luger (once again) and finally figured out how the trigger/sear/sideplate mechanism works. I see how the toggle safety raises a block which prevents the sear from moving out and releasing the firing pin.

I have studied the pictures of sear safeties. I see there is a strap of metal pinned to the "shelf" above the sear. I cannot figure out how this arrangement functions. Is this an active or a passive safety? If active, how is it activated? Is there a quick explanation for its mechanical function? Thanks in advance for any help.

Jack

Jim Keenan · 05-18-2003, 07:58 PM

The sear safety, sometimes called the Schiwy safety (after the inventor), or the "police" safety (after the primary users), was designed to prevent firing a round left in the chamber when the pistol was taken apart for cleaning. It prevents firing should the sear bar be depressed while the receiver is off the grip piece.

The Schiwy sear safety is a spring above the sideplate, riveted to the receiver at the rear. The front end is free and has a small pin that goes through the frame into the sear bar through holes drilled for that purpose. When the sideplate is in place, its top edge fits under the spring and moves it up so the pin retracts from the sear bar and the gun can be fired.

With the side plate off, the spring forces the pin down into the sear bar, keeping the bar from moving outward, and the gun cannot be fired.

HTH

Jim

Jack Lawman · 05-18-2003, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the lightning fast reply Jim. I think I've got it. As I do not own a sear safety luger, I borrowed this pic from a thread posted by forum member "pisto". If this is bad kharma, I will remove it on first complaint.

If I understand correctly (in the yellow oval), there is a pin running from the safety spring, through the "shelf", and into the sear bar? When the sideplate is installed, it lifts the spring, pulling the pin up and out?

If this is the case, where does the sideplate contact the safety spring, and does the sideplate require modification in order to achieve the spring lift?

Edit 2130 hours: I think I see it. Does the top of the sideplate have a channel cut into it so it nestles into the "shelf" and the spring rides across the top of the plate?

Edward Tinker · 05-18-2003, 09:33 PM

Jack, no I have "borrowed" pics also, especially if they are on this forum, then I find it an acceptable practice, I try to give credit where credit is due.

I have several police models and if I can help...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If I understand correctly (in the yellow oval), there is a pin running from the safety spring, through the "shelf", and into the sear bar? When the sideplate is installed, it lifts the spring, pulling the pin up and out?<hr /></blockquote>I believe that is what it does, there is a good page of info in Third Reich Lugers by Jan Still. If you want to shoot me an e-mail, then that is okay.

Ed

Jack Lawman · 05-18-2003, 09:47 PM

I just re-re-examined my sideplate and can see that it would lift the safety out of the way without mods. Thank you Ed and Jim.

Jack

Dwight Gruber · 05-19-2003, 03:51 AM

Actually, as can be seen here, the top of the side plate is cut to allow the sear safety to make contact, for the full recoil length of the receiver.

I have examined a Police pistol whose side plate was not cut out and it could be made to fit, but it was a real problem to install and I suspect that it was not original to the sear safety conversion (even though the side plate was number-matched to the gun).

--Dwight

Jack Lawman · 05-19-2003, 08:23 AM

Of course.....

Makes sense. I forgot about where the pin would go in my haste to understand. Thanks for the pic Dwight.

Jack

John Sabato · 05-19-2003, 10:25 AM

Any photographs posted by our members on this forum are considered to be the property of those who posted them and that they have therefore placed them into the public domain.

Copyrighted photos can only be placed here with prior permission of the copyright owner...

Should anyone notify the forum that a photograph has been posted is violating a copyright, then that photo will be removed... and an explanation or a substitute photo will be left in it's place...

Would Everyone kindly please take the places they had before this interrupting public announcement from your admin staff

05-18-2003, 07:13 PM	#1
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Sear Safety Function? I just examined my Luger (once again) and finally figured out how the trigger/sear/sideplate mechanism works. I see how the toggle safety raises a block which prevents the sear from moving out and releasing the firing pin. I have studied the pictures of sear safeties. I see there is a strap of metal pinned to the "shelf" above the sear. I cannot figure out how this arrangement functions. Is this an active or a passive safety? If active, how is it activated? Is there a quick explanation for its mechanical function? Thanks in advance for any help. Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

05-18-2003, 09:29 PM	#3
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Thanks for the lightning fast reply Jim. I think I've got it. As I do not own a sear safety luger, I borrowed this pic from a thread posted by forum member "pisto". If this is bad kharma, I will remove it on first complaint. If I understand correctly (in the yellow oval), there is a pin running from the safety spring, through the "shelf", and into the sear bar? When the sideplate is installed, it lifts the spring, pulling the pin up and out? If this is the case, where does the sideplate contact the safety spring, and does the sideplate require modification in order to achieve the spring lift? Edit 2130 hours: I think I see it. Does the top of the sideplate have a channel cut into it so it nestles into the "shelf" and the spring rides across the top of the plate? __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

05-18-2003, 09:33 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Jack, no I have "borrowed" pics also, especially if they are on this forum, then I find it an acceptable practice, I try to give credit where credit is due. I have several police models and if I can help... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">If I understand correctly (in the yellow oval), there is a pin running from the safety spring, through the "shelf", and into the sear bar? When the sideplate is installed, it lifts the spring, pulling the pin up and out?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I believe that is what it does, there is a good page of info in Third Reich Lugers by Jan Still. If you want to shoot me an e-mail, then that is okay. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-18-2003, 09:47 PM	#5
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	I just re-re-examined my sideplate and can see that it would lift the safety out of the way without mods. Thank you Ed and Jim. Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

05-19-2003, 08:23 AM	#7
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Of course..... Makes sense. I forgot about where the pin would go in my haste to understand. Thanks for the pic Dwight. Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

05-18-2003, 07:58 PM	#2
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The sear safety, sometimes called the Schiwy safety (after the inventor), or the "police" safety (after the primary users), was designed to prevent firing a round left in the chamber when the pistol was taken apart for cleaning. It prevents firing should the sear bar be depressed while the receiver is off the grip piece. The Schiwy sear safety is a spring above the sideplate, riveted to the receiver at the rear. The front end is free and has a small pin that goes through the frame into the sear bar through holes drilled for that purpose. When the sideplate is in place, its top edge fits under the spring and moves it up so the pin retracts from the sear bar and the gun can be fired. With the side plate off, the spring forces the pin down into the sear bar, keeping the bar from moving outward, and the gun cannot be fired. HTH Jim

05-19-2003, 03:51 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Actually, as can be seen here, the top of the side plate is cut to allow the sear safety to make contact, for the full recoil length of the receiver. I have examined a Police pistol whose side plate was not cut out and it could be made to fit, but it was a real problem to install and I suspect that it was not original to the sear safety conversion (even though the side plate was number-matched to the gun). --Dwight

05-19-2003, 10:25 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Any photographs posted by our members on this forum are considered to be the property of those who posted them and that they have therefore placed them into the public domain. Copyrighted photos can only be placed here with prior permission of the copyright owner... Should anyone notify the forum that a photograph has been posted is violating a copyright, then that photo will be removed... and an explanation or a substitute photo will be left in it's place... Would Everyone kindly please take the places they had before this interrupting public announcement from your admin staff __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*