O.T. but Interesting

Herb · 07-22-2002, 05:37 PM

Little known facts of WWII.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html

Don · 07-22-2002, 07:02 PM

I'm enjoying this site. And actually, there's a Luger anecdote. Says that in occupied Copenhagen, the Danes opened a shop to do engraving, fancy grips, etc., for German officers' sidearms. What they didn't tell them was that they narrowed the diamater of the bore and weakened the breech!

max2cam · 07-22-2002, 11:04 PM

Here's one that jumps out:

GERMAN IMPORTS? Up till 1933, the German S,A. (Brownshirts) were equipped with revolvers and machine guns 'Made in USA'.

I wonder what's the truth to this?

With millions of WWI German weapons in der Vaterland, why would American guns be imported?

Or were they just stamped "Made in USA" for some political or legal purpose?

Herb · 07-22-2002, 11:18 PM

Max, maybe that means Usa, Japan, an old trick Nippon was using a few years back until they were told to cease and desist. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

John Sabato · 07-23-2002, 08:53 AM

Dan,

While I don't doubt that some sabotage took place during the war... How the heck do you narrow the diameter of the bore and weaken the breech ?

What miracle did they use to reduce the size of the bore?

Sounds suspiciously like an old wives tale to me... [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

max2cam · 07-23-2002, 11:18 AM

I was wondering the same thing about "narrowing the bore." Upon the return of the German officer did the Dane say: "Herr General, vhile vee installed dose fancy pearl grips, vee also installed ein new 4mm barrel, yuk, yuk!"

Reminds me of another old myth about the M98 Mauser rifle. Supposedly the little step in the ejector slot in the locking lug was an act of sabotage to make the gun dangerous to fire. Turns out it was another of Paul Mauser's safety features to help block or divert errant gases in case of a ruptured case.

I imagine this WWII site has considerable mis-information. Truth is a slippery little devil. Our beloved Luger hobby proves that!

Doubs · 07-23-2002, 01:42 PM

Last Saturday evening I was looking at a book in Barnes & Noble with the title "Dirty Little Secrets of WW2". I should have bought it as the stories were quite interesting and $6 won't break me.

One story involved a German bunker in Lorraine. On an interior wall is written the date xx-xx-1918 and the name of an American Doughboy. Below that is the date xx-xx-1944 and the same GI's name. Following is the note: "I hope this is the last damned time I see the inside of this bunker!"

Pretty funny, I thought.

Heydrich · 07-23-2002, 11:50 PM

[Reminds me of another old myth about the M98 Mauser rifle. Supposedly the little step in the ejector slot in the locking lug was an act of sabotage to make the gun dangerous to fire. Turns out it was another of Paul Mauser's safety features to help block or divert errant gases in case of a ruptured case.]

Max, are you referring to the milled slot or notch cut into the middle of the left hand locking lug? I was perplexed by your statement above and got out one of my 98k bolt assemblies and looked it over to see what you meant. I worked the action, and it does indeed look like a safety feature. If the operator did indeed have a ruptured case, it looks like this feature would divert some of the errant gases to the left and outward of the receiver. I guess when Paul Mauser added the third safety lug back by the bolt handle, he figured he could add this feature to one of the two forward lugs. To the casual observer, it might look like this feature would weaken the bolt apparatus. The Model 98 action also included the two larger gas vents in the bolt, and a gas shield back by the shooter’s face. IMHO, the Model 98 rifle has got to be the safest high-powered rifle design ever made. I don’t trust anything else. Every time I see someone shoot a Winchester rifle with the carriages loaded side by side next to each other, in that tube below the barrel, I cringe. Irrational, but it doesn’t look safe to me.

But yes, some rifles made for the Germans during WW2 were indeed sabotaged. Slave laborers at the concentration camps sabotaged the G43 action by not drilling the gas port hole all the way through the barrel. (Imagine that.) A sabotaged G43 would fire only one round and then cease to function. K98s made in Czechoslovakia had the front sights intentionally misaligned so the rifles fired to the left or right. I experienced this personally because the first K98 I bought was a dou 43 coded version. (Czech manufacturing code.) I always wondered what the bloody hell was wrong with it because I couldn’t hit anything with it. Then one night I was watching a program on the History Channel about the Israeli Army. As many of you know, the Israeli Army received large amounts of captured German small arms after WW2, included Czech rifles. And they had the same problem I had. An Israeli officer gets on the screen and goes, “The Czechs didn’t like the Germans very much, so they misaligned the sights on the rifles they made for them.” Those bastards! They ended up messing with my head too.

And as far as the Danes sabotaging Luger pistols, that’s probably hogwash. Of all the countries the Germans occupied during WW2, Denmark was far and away the most docile and meek. Embarrassingly so. After the war, the Danes felt bad about this, and had a lot to answer for also. So they probably made up a bunch of BS stories about them sabotaging officers pistols and other fake resistance claims to save face. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

07-22-2002, 05:37 PM	#1
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	O.T. but Interesting Little known facts of WWII. http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-22-2002, 11:18 PM	#4
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Max, maybe that means Usa, Japan, an old trick Nippon was using a few years back until they were told to cease and desist. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-23-2002, 08:53 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Dan, While I don't doubt that some sabotage took place during the war... How the heck do you narrow the diameter of the bore and weaken the breech ? What miracle did they use to reduce the size of the bore? Sounds suspiciously like an old wives tale to me... [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-22-2002, 07:02 PM	#2
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm enjoying this site. And actually, there's a Luger anecdote. Says that in occupied Copenhagen, the Danes opened a shop to do engraving, fancy grips, etc., for German officers' sidearms. What they didn't tell them was that they narrowed the diamater of the bore and weakened the breech!

07-22-2002, 11:04 PM	#3
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's one that jumps out: GERMAN IMPORTS? Up till 1933, the German S,A. (Brownshirts) were equipped with revolvers and machine guns 'Made in USA'. I wonder what's the truth to this? With millions of WWI German weapons in der Vaterland, why would American guns be imported? Or were they just stamped "Made in USA" for some political or legal purpose?

07-23-2002, 11:18 AM	#6
max2cam User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 97 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was wondering the same thing about "narrowing the bore." Upon the return of the German officer did the Dane say: "Herr General, vhile vee installed dose fancy pearl grips, vee also installed ein new 4mm barrel, yuk, yuk!" Reminds me of another old myth about the M98 Mauser rifle. Supposedly the little step in the ejector slot in the locking lug was an act of sabotage to make the gun dangerous to fire. Turns out it was another of Paul Mauser's safety features to help block or divert errant gases in case of a ruptured case. I imagine this WWII site has considerable mis-information. Truth is a slippery little devil. Our beloved Luger hobby proves that!

07-23-2002, 01:42 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,671 Thanks: 771 Thanked 1,617 Times in 526 Posts	Last Saturday evening I was looking at a book in Barnes & Noble with the title "Dirty Little Secrets of WW2". I should have bought it as the stories were quite interesting and $6 won't break me. One story involved a German bunker in Lorraine. On an interior wall is written the date xx-xx-1918 and the name of an American Doughboy. Below that is the date xx-xx-1944 and the same GI's name. Following is the note: "I hope this is the last damned time I see the inside of this bunker!" Pretty funny, I thought.

07-23-2002, 11:50 PM	#8
Heydrich Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	[Reminds me of another old myth about the M98 Mauser rifle. Supposedly the little step in the ejector slot in the locking lug was an act of sabotage to make the gun dangerous to fire. Turns out it was another of Paul Mauser's safety features to help block or divert errant gases in case of a ruptured case.] Max, are you referring to the milled slot or notch cut into the middle of the left hand locking lug? I was perplexed by your statement above and got out one of my 98k bolt assemblies and looked it over to see what you meant. I worked the action, and it does indeed look like a safety feature. If the operator did indeed have a ruptured case, it looks like this feature would divert some of the errant gases to the left and outward of the receiver. I guess when Paul Mauser added the third safety lug back by the bolt handle, he figured he could add this feature to one of the two forward lugs. To the casual observer, it might look like this feature would weaken the bolt apparatus. The Model 98 action also included the two larger gas vents in the bolt, and a gas shield back by the shooter’s face. IMHO, the Model 98 rifle has got to be the safest high-powered rifle design ever made. I don’t trust anything else. Every time I see someone shoot a Winchester rifle with the carriages loaded side by side next to each other, in that tube below the barrel, I cringe. Irrational, but it doesn’t look safe to me. But yes, some rifles made for the Germans during WW2 were indeed sabotaged. Slave laborers at the concentration camps sabotaged the G43 action by not drilling the gas port hole all the way through the barrel. (Imagine that.) A sabotaged G43 would fire only one round and then cease to function. K98s made in Czechoslovakia had the front sights intentionally misaligned so the rifles fired to the left or right. I experienced this personally because the first K98 I bought was a dou 43 coded version. (Czech manufacturing code.) I always wondered what the bloody hell was wrong with it because I couldn’t hit anything with it. Then one night I was watching a program on the History Channel about the Israeli Army. As many of you know, the Israeli Army received large amounts of captured German small arms after WW2, included Czech rifles. And they had the same problem I had. An Israeli officer gets on the screen and goes, “The Czechs didn’t like the Germans very much, so they misaligned the sights on the rifles they made for them.” Those bastards! They ended up messing with my head too. And as far as the Danes sabotaging Luger pistols, that’s probably hogwash. Of all the countries the Germans occupied during WW2, Denmark was far and away the most docile and meek. Embarrassingly so. After the war, the Danes felt bad about this, and had a lot to answer for also. So they probably made up a bunch of BS stories about them sabotaging officers pistols and other fake resistance claims to save face. [img]tongue.gif[/img]