Cleaning old luger holster??

[DAVID]

What is the proper way to clean a older luger holster?

[Robert Wiggins]

Good Question, but a better one would be when to and when not to clean an "old Luger holster".


I'm interested in other members opinions on this as well, but I for one look on an aged holster much as you would look on a valuable coin in a collection, or military medals for that matter! Many of these items develop a patina over the years which most often is a desirable state that indicates age and in the case of the holster, practical use.


When I look at an old holster I see the scratches and marks as desirable historical indicators of military use and I often wonder how those marks came to be there. I for one am not interested in a "bright new look" in such older holsters and would refrain from trying to achieve this look on an old historical item.


That being said, there is room for professional approach to cleaning up any dirt accumulation so long as it doesn't alter the age factor of the holster. I'm no professional in this area and will not suggest an approach. I'll leave that up to the experts to suggest, and I look forward to feedback on this area.


Regards;

[DAVID]

I too am not interested in making the holster look new but just clean the surface grime etc.

I have used Pecard leather care on my leather holsters which helps to perserve the leather. I suggest that you use it sparingly and wipe it off after a few hours. After the application, brush the leather with a shoe brush and wipe the leather with a lint free cloth. I have heard comments that Pecard might darken light leather, however, I have not observed this change in any of my holsters.


Pecard is like a grease or fat and very mild on leather. Typically, I use it once a year or less depending if the leather shows any sign of drynes.



Imperial Arms

Hi folks,


Here we go again.


Pecards appears great for waterproofing shoes to use in the rain--I slathered it on some leather boots while I lived in rainy Boston and it worked well. For old leather, I don't know what good it would do and the academic research as well as museum practice does not support its use. If someone can tell me what is in it or how, physically/chemically, it preserves or aids old leather I would very much like that information. To date, the only information I have received is anecdotal and seems to originate from about ten years ago when this stuff was hawked at gun shows. The same goes for nearly all other substances, goos, liquids, creams, oils and especially soaps--the lab research does not identify any benefits of ANY of these treatments.


Any holster or other old leather I find treated (e.g., the 1918 US sling last week that had enough neatsfoot oil on it to lube a Chevy) is greatly devalued and may have a shortened life. Pecards is readily identifiable by the sticky residue that appears in the folds of the holster (e.g., where the belt loops meet the holster body). Oils and greases like P's, neatsfoot, mink, etc. all darken leather. These are derived from petroleum (not minks) and soak through the leather like it would applying oil to your pants. Your pants and the holster will darken.


Use a soft brush to remove dust from old leather. Use mild soap such as Tandy's leather soap to gently remove mud or grime. Be careful on pre 1941 luger holsters as the high quality leather finish is quite thin and more than one holster has been destroyed by rubbing too vigorously and removing the surface finish. I just saw a mint 1936 holster that was buffed to death and two years ago saw one that had been so buffed it was "furry"!.


Leather treatment is an area of great myth and many many holsters have been ruined by application of oils or greases. High boiling point waxes are a different story and may work well on high gloss holster surfaces such as on pre 40s luger holsters but never on US M1910 holsters. Follow the methods of the Mus of the Confederacy in Virginia: low stress, low light, stable humidity (55%), stable temperature (cold). Those techniques are guaranteed to preserve your holster and its value.


On the net is posted a 1991 metastudy of leather treatment research published by a researcher in textiles at Iowa State Univ. It is a good review.


Whenever given advice about how to treat your leather goods, ask what is in the goo and what is the evidence of its effectiveness. I have yet to have anyone answer the first question so I know they can't answer the second one.


No criticisms being extended here but I want to ensure a handful of holsters survive into the future and that I can find at least ONE unmucked holster at the next show I attend. Yes, scuffs and scratches on a box-stiff luger holster are wonderful--I seek such holsters but rarely find one as too many well-intentioned folks try to "pretty up" the holster or think the cracking "must be stopped so I oiled it (has the opposite effect, speeding the cracking most often)". Good luck with your holster.


Dave

holster guy

[Johnny Peppers]

Everyone doesn't live in a climate controlled museum, and from 25 years experience and approximately 200 pieces of leather of my own, I can tell you that Pecards works. Some would have you believe that your holster will go flat as yesterday's flapjack if you get the container of Pecards anywhere near a holster, but it just doesn't happen. I have resurrected too many 1907 leather slings that normally would have been thrown out to believe that Pecards will cause any harm to your leather. I totally agree that Neatsfoot oil should never be used on any type of antique leather. I have a few 1907 slings and 1916 holsters that were treated with Mink Oil some thirty years ago, and a white substance is still working out of the leather.

Someone a while back even touted distilled water as the best treatment for holsters. If there is anything you do not want on a dry holster, it is water. It will soak it up like a sponge. If water was good for a holster, there would be no need to keep the holster in a humidity controlled environment.

No personal criticism intended. What is in Pecard's? I tried it years ago and it darkened the leather. It does not dry and I can see no benefit from its use. There is no published research showing any benefit from Pecard's. What does it do that helps old leather? I am not being difficult I really want to know as I wish to gather such information. I have had at least two holsters in my possession that were seriously damaged by Pecards (unremovable greasy stickiness all over holster and serious darkening) and don't want to see any more holsters ruined.


When you say "resurrected", what did it do?


I haven't heard of Pecard's flattening holsters but would like more information about such a claimed effect. Also, as for distilled water, I once mentioned it as a joke to people who mistakenly think that you add oil to leather to moisturize it. That is obviously illogical if you only think about it for a moment. Leather is porous and loses or gains moisture from air humidity. Oil is not moisture. The effect most people are describing is cracking and that can arise from several causes. Filling pores with oil or grease may help reduce cracking but that can be done by environment control without the harm from oil, which can dissolve organic molecules and therefore promote some cracking and crumbling.


No, most folks don't live in a climate controlled museum. Liquid treatments are not a substitute.


Thanks for any information you can provide.

[Marvin]

dl,


I have several articles on leather care at my office. Unfortunantly, it will be Monday before I can post the referenced material. One of the article was written and published in one of the Militaria magazines. Pecards was the conditioner recommended.


I personally use Lexol when I feel a holster needs conditioning. I also use it very sparingly after a light cleaning with a brush and I only rub the holster enough to remove the surface of the Lexol conditioner.


I will have the referenced material on the Forum Monday morning.


Marvin

[Johnny Peppers]

What is in Pecards? Why should I care as long as it works with no detrimental effects. I simply have more important things to do than try to research every bottle of bore cleaner, each bronze brush, or coating on the cleaning rod that I purchase. As long as they work as intended I have no problem. As to darkening leather, I have never had it to darken leather that had a glaze or hard finish on it. On leather that does not have a highly finished surface, anything will darken it slightly, but not so much as to be objectionable. In fact on many 1912 and 1916 holsters for the 1911 Colt that have started to dry out, the Pecards brings a rich color back to the leather.

I was given a box of 1907 slings dated from 1917 thru 1944 that had been folded and put away for approximately 50 years. The slings had dried out, and had virtually petrified in the folded up position. I carefully straightened them out as much as possible and applied liberal coats of Pecards. The slings are now supple enough to thread onto the sling swivels of 1903 Springfields and M1 Rifles. I would not use them for match shooting, but for display purposes they look great considering they had once been almost rock hard.

I have no idea who had the post on Pecards softening holsters and really have no intention of searching for it either. You might find it in the archives if it is really important that you know.

Moisture can be anything that causes an object to be moist or wet. Oil will wet anything down just as well as water. If water was all that was needed for moisture, women would not need all the "moisturizers" that they use.

Cracking in leather can also be caused from improper tanning techniques, and the fibers of the leather are breaking down due to the original tanning process. Leathers in this condition simply can't be left to their own accord to breath moisture in and out. They need treating. Take a look at the holster on page 29 or Kenyon's "Luger: The Multi-National Pistol". My friend recently purchased the companion piece to this pistol and the holster is in the same identical condition. The pistol and holster had been in a bank safe deposit box for almost 30 years, and the holster had dried out to the point of where dust from the holster came off on your hands or the cloth the holster was wrapped in. It simply had to have help in a hurry, and Pecards has stopped the deterioration of the leather. The condition of the holsters which were more than likely made at the same time would suggest that the tanning process was not exactly right.