Upgrading a 41 BYF !!

kidvett · 10-01-2003, 07:38 PM

Hello,

Here is my latest...that is an upgrading of my 41 BYF...

BYF 41 Dated Matching mag pistol with a one digit serial no. in the `` q `` block. ( I'm not used to see small numbers like that ). Pistol is all matching ( of course ! ) with numbered & Proofed grips. Curiously, as all parts are stamped with the ``7 `` number, the hold open is stamped ``07 ``

Needless to say that I'm a very happy camper !!

Mark

Pete Ebbink · 10-01-2003, 07:41 PM

Hello Kidvett,

What a supberb acquisition ! Congrats !!!

To bad all your small parts were not stamped "007"...how cool would that have been... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Makes one wonder where all those other "single digit" lugers are...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

integralaction · 10-01-2003, 08:33 PM

The lucky 7. Very nice. I envy you.

kris · 10-02-2003, 01:03 AM

Very nice !

lugercollector · 10-03-2003, 08:37 PM

Hey Kidvett....nice gun!!!....Regards....Peter

ToggleTop · 10-03-2003, 08:54 PM

kidvett,
Could you tell us if there are any numbers on the inside of the sideplate like maybe an "01". I ask just as a matter of interest. I have never figured out the sideplate numbering on the inside. I have lost many hours of sleep trying to figure out the logic used!
It appears you have found a very nice pistol with a single digit serial number! I have owned a two digit but never a one digit. Have you ever seen a luger numbered "0"? I would very much like to find one numbered "0".

Beste GrÃ?Â¼sse,

Frank · 10-04-2003, 09:35 AM

Hey Kid, nice addition!! Congrats!!

BTW how was Grouse Hunting??

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

kidvett · 10-04-2003, 08:58 PM

Hi Frank,

Thank you for the kind words...A nice piece indeed with a single digit number

Ruffled Grouse trip departure sceduled for Tuesday. Had to pick up that 41 first !!

ToggleTop: PIC of the inside of the sideplate as requested. Like you stated, it is marked with the `` 1 `` number.

Mark

ToggleTop · 10-04-2003, 09:05 PM

Hello Mark,
Thank you for the excellent image. Maybe someday someone will figure out the sideplate numbering system, until then we will just enjoy!

kidvett · 10-04-2003, 09:25 PM

ToggleTop,

I tried different shades of light for the PICS and came up with a second number on the inside of the sideplate. Small no. `` 2 ``

Mark

ToggleTop · 10-04-2003, 10:03 PM

Mark,
Don't you think it's just one of those processing or inspector's marks. I would guess!
I believe the"1" has a story to tell, I don't want to worry about the other one!!!

Good Hunting,
ToggleTop

Frank · 10-05-2003, 10:06 AM

Hi Kid, I totally agree with Chester (Toggle Top) regarding the "1". I would guess the "2" is some type of rework or other inspection stamp. The "inside number" is always on the large flat surface, as far as I can tell, that is if there is one!!

Good Luck with the Fast Flying Feathery Friends!!

John Sabato · 10-05-2003, 11:14 AM

Never having seen or held a single digit serial number Luger... I am baffled by the presence of the digit one on the inside...

Frank isn't it common the the inside number on byf 41's be one serial number less than what the last "two" digits of the gun is?

Perhaps Bill Munis (Mauserlugers) will see this post and comment...

Frank · 10-05-2003, 09:05 PM

John, the rule for byf Lugers is the inside plate number is one greater than the first two digits of the serial number. So in this case the first two digits are "00" so one larger would be "1". I guess I might have expected "01", but I'll buy just "1".

RockinWR · 10-05-2003, 10:48 PM

Ed,
* Frank is correct for Mark's example above.
* Dr. Bob Van Mierop engaged a study in AutoMag during '93-'94. His hypothesis & initial results were posted in Issue XXVI, Pgs. 36 & 219. His conclusion was reported in the 6/94 issue, Pg. 66. After about 400 post 1933 Mauser's examined, the bottom line goes as follows:
- "S/42-K, S/42-G, & S/42-1936 pistols, in general do not have Inside Side Plate Numbers(ISPN's). In S/42-1937 & S/42-1938 pistols the ISPN consists of the first one (if the s/n is 3 digits) or two (if the s/n is 4 digits) of the s/n. After that (S/42-1939 to byf-42) it consists of the 1st one or two digits +1, ie; 23 instead of 22 if the s/n is 22xx. In pistols with s/n's of one or two digits, it is 1 (ie, they fall within the first 100 pistols of the block letter) and with s/n 99xx the ISPN is 00(not 100). Since, curiously, I don't have any record of a 1 or 2 digit s/n in the earlier S/42-1937 and S/42-1938 group, I do not know what their ISPN would be. 0 or ??. The transitional range between no ISPN (or just a non specific single digit number in the horizontal position or a letter) and the ISPN first digit(s) is S/42-1936, 1937 m, n, o, p, q: a rather large 40000 pistol number group. 11 example pistols fall within this range; 6 have ISPN's, 5 do not, no particular pattern. After the q block ISPN's are quite consistently present, with very few exceptions."
* FWIW, in the byf '41 example above, I detect a script "x", two small numeral "2's", and the larger numeral "1". My guess, in "IMHO" only, is this sideplate had a dimensional problem initially and was "x" marked, was adjusted by factory workers and accepted by "2" with the rework possibly being in the areas stamped by this worker, and the ISPN #1 was placed on the sideplate's interior when it was finally fitted to pistol number "7" above. <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />
* A study of WWI and Weimar pistols was never formalized, as best as I can tell. There was a tangential post stating "...of eight (8) 1916-1918 LP.08's examined, the first two digits of the pistol's s/n was found on the inside of the respective sideplate. It was absent from a 1914 DWM, a 1914 Erfurt, and a 1915 DWM LP.08. Unlike the Mauser ISPN location on the interior vertical surface, the LP.08 location was on the horizontal flats, specifically in the recess area into which the trigger lever pin is rotated & locked into place." No further reports were noted to confirm this.

Mark,
* What a sweetheart of an example. Lucky "7" and a tight bore to boot. Wonder if the favored s/n kept it from going to Russia?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

* Trust this all helps.

Respectfully,
Bob

10-01-2003, 08:33 PM	#3
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The lucky 7. Very nice. I envy you. __________________ integralaction

10-02-2003, 01:03 AM	#4
kris User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very nice ! __________________ Kris

10-03-2003, 08:54 PM	#6
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	kidvett, Could you tell us if there are any numbers on the inside of the sideplate like maybe an "01". I ask just as a matter of interest. I have never figured out the sideplate numbering on the inside. I have lost many hours of sleep trying to figure out the logic used! It appears you have found a very nice pistol with a single digit serial number! I have owned a two digit but never a one digit. Have you ever seen a luger numbered "0"? I would very much like to find one numbered "0". Beste GrÃ?Â¼sse, __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

10-04-2003, 09:05 PM	#9
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Mark, Thank you for the excellent image. Maybe someday someone will figure out the sideplate numbering system, until then we will just enjoy! __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

10-04-2003, 10:03 PM	#11
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mark, Don't you think it's just one of those processing or inspector's marks. I would guess! I believe the"1" has a story to tell, I don't want to worry about the other one!!! Good Hunting, ToggleTop __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

10-01-2003, 07:38 PM	#1
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Upgrading a 41 BYF !! Hello, Here is my latest...that is an upgrading of my 41 BYF... BYF 41 Dated Matching mag pistol with a one digit serial no. in the `` q `` block. ( I'm not used to see small numbers like that ). Pistol is all matching ( of course ! ) with numbered & Proofed grips. Curiously, as all parts are stamped with the ``7 `` number, the hold open is stamped ``07 `` Needless to say that I'm a very happy camper !! Mark <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Rig2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Rig2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/FrNo.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/FrNo.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/MagNo.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/MagNo.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

10-01-2003, 07:41 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Kidvett, What a supberb acquisition ! Congrats !!! To bad all your small parts were not stamped "007"...how cool would that have been... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Makes one wonder where all those other "single digit" lugers are...??? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

10-03-2003, 08:37 PM	#5
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	Hey Kidvett....nice gun!!!....Regards....Peter

10-04-2003, 09:35 AM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hey Kid, nice addition!! Congrats!! BTW how was Grouse Hunting?? <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

10-04-2003, 08:58 PM	#8
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Frank, Thank you for the kind words...A nice piece indeed with a single digit number Ruffled Grouse trip departure sceduled for Tuesday. Had to pick up that 41 first !! ToggleTop: PIC of the inside of the sideplate as requested. Like you stated, it is marked with the `` 1 `` number. Mark

10-04-2003, 09:25 PM	#10
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	ToggleTop, I tried different shades of light for the PICS and came up with a second number on the inside of the sideplate. Small no. `` 2 `` Mark

10-05-2003, 10:06 AM	#12
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Kid, I totally agree with Chester (Toggle Top) regarding the "1". I would guess the "2" is some type of rework or other inspection stamp. The "inside number" is always on the large flat surface, as far as I can tell, that is if there is one!! Good Luck with the Fast Flying Feathery Friends!!

10-05-2003, 11:14 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Never having seen or held a single digit serial number Luger... I am baffled by the presence of the digit one on the inside... Frank isn't it common the the inside number on byf 41's be one serial number less than what the last "two" digits of the gun is? Perhaps Bill Munis (Mauserlugers) will see this post and comment... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-05-2003, 09:05 PM	#14
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	John, the rule for byf Lugers is the inside plate number is one greater than the first two digits of the serial number. So in this case the first two digits are "00" so one larger would be "1". I guess I might have expected "01", but I'll buy just "1".

10-05-2003, 10:48 PM	#15
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Ed, * Frank is correct for Mark's example above. * Dr. Bob Van Mierop engaged a study in AutoMag during '93-'94. His hypothesis & initial results were posted in Issue XXVI, Pgs. 36 & 219. His conclusion was reported in the 6/94 issue, Pg. 66. After about 400 post 1933 Mauser's examined, the bottom line goes as follows: - "S/42-K, S/42-G, & S/42-1936 pistols, in general do not have Inside Side Plate Numbers(ISPN's). In S/42-1937 & S/42-1938 pistols the ISPN consists of the first one (if the s/n is 3 digits) or two (if the s/n is 4 digits) of the s/n. After that (S/42-1939 to byf-42) it consists of the 1st one or two digits +1, ie; 23 instead of 22 if the s/n is 22xx. In pistols with s/n's of one or two digits, it is 1 (ie, they fall within the first 100 pistols of the block letter) and with s/n 99xx the ISPN is 00(not 100). Since, curiously, I don't have any record of a 1 or 2 digit s/n in the earlier S/42-1937 and S/42-1938 group, I do not know what their ISPN would be. 0 or ??. The transitional range between no ISPN (or just a non specific single digit number in the horizontal position or a letter) and the ISPN first digit(s) is S/42-1936, 1937 m, n, o, p, q: a rather large 40000 pistol number group. 11 example pistols fall within this range; 6 have ISPN's, 5 do not, no particular pattern. After the q block ISPN's are quite consistently present, with very few exceptions." * FWIW, in the byf '41 example above, I detect a script "x", two small numeral "2's", and the larger numeral "1". My guess, in "IMHO" only, is this sideplate had a dimensional problem initially and was "x" marked, was adjusted by factory workers and accepted by "2" with the rework possibly being in the areas stamped by this worker, and the ISPN #1 was placed on the sideplate's interior when it was finally fitted to pistol number "7" above. <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> * A study of WWI and Weimar pistols was never formalized, as best as I can tell. There was a tangential post stating "...of eight (8) 1916-1918 LP.08's examined, the first two digits of the pistol's s/n was found on the inside of the respective sideplate. It was absent from a 1914 DWM, a 1914 Erfurt, and a 1915 DWM LP.08. Unlike the Mauser ISPN location on the interior vertical surface, the LP.08 location was on the horizontal flats, specifically in the recess area into which the trigger lever pin is rotated & locked into place." No further reports were noted to confirm this. Mark, * What a sweetheart of an example. Lucky "7" and a tight bore to boot. Wonder if the favored s/n kept it from going to Russia?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> * Trust this all helps. Respectfully, Bob