Help with byf 42

Sterling · 03-27-2004, 03:27 AM

Hello all...my first post as I've just recently joined, and would sure appreciate your help. Am finally deciding to take the P08 plunge after all these years, one reason being that a fellow I have worked with for many years and with whom I have always been good friends has just offered for sale to me the first luger he ever bought (he has four). He knew I was looking for one, and he came acoss a Broomhandle Mauser that he needs to get some money together for before it is gone. I don't know enough about these guns yet to trust my own judgement, so I beg your assistance.

He has a 1942 byf 9mm 4 inch BW, and it is in the best condition of any P08 I have ever seen, in person anyway. He disassembled it for me, all the numbers match. I wish I could remember the four digit serial number, but it escapes me this late at night. From what I have seen on the internet and in person, I would have to say the gun and bluing is at 99%. Holster wear is virtually non-existant...maybe completely non-existant. Plastic grips are perfect. From what I can ascertain from the web and this site, all markings are as they should be. He told me he had a gunsmith familiar with lugers look at the bore, and he could not even tell for sure if it had been shot before. Of course no pitting anywhere on the pistol The grips look like they should from the pictures you all have referred to in past posts. The gun has not been reblued, and he showed me what to look for to be able to tell if one has been. Well, without rattling on anymore, you get the picture.

I wish I had the pictures to post, but will eagerly, and maybe even nervously, do so if I purchase it. I say nervously, but I completely trust this fellow as to what he says about the weapon, but am just wanting to know what you all think, with this limited information, the gun and accessories might be worth.

It has two black plastic bottomed fxo mags, and a holster with a tool. The holster is without a doubt the best I have seen as well, and he says the holster alone could fetch $400. The stitching is nice and white, and the holster has all the proper markings from what I can tell, and is a good black with no fading. It is also a 1942.

He is asking $2000 for everything, and I don't think he will go any lower.

If all is as he says it is, is this a fair price? I don't expect an incredible bargain, but want to pay a fair price.

Thank you all for any and all responses.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 03-27-2004, 03:48 AM

If it is everything you say, it could be worth that much easily. Without seeing it, the people here will be severly disadvantaged at making a judgement call. If you could get some pictures of everything, especially a close up of a few places on the Luger so that a more accurate evaluation could be made. It would help greatly, especially in being able to tell if the bluing is orginal or not. One thing to consider, they aren't getting any cheaper as time passes. I bought my byf 42 in 1979, and many thought I was crazy to pay $475 for any handgun, then. I'm happy I splurged and bought it. Imagine the value of that setup, you are looking at, in 25 years!!!

Bob in OH · 03-27-2004, 10:07 AM

2K is many skins unless you are familiar with the gun or the seller. Sounds like you trust the seller. One option might be to buy the gun (trusting the seller) with a 3-5 day provision for a return. If the piece is as described, both seller and buyer will be happy and deal will be final and the 3-5 day is almost moot. The 3-5 days gives you some insuranc & the opportunity to photograph the piece and to share with others who are impartial and can better assess the value.

Frank · 03-27-2004, 10:56 AM

Hi Sterling, welcome to the Luger Forum.

Based on your description, if the pistol is all you say it is, buy that little sucker!!!!

The pistol alone might be sold for the $2K. One word of caution would be to make sure the grips are correct. There are some pretty sneaky people out there that are making some authentic looking grips. You have researched the photos on the Luger Forum, so you know what to look for. Make sure the threaded holes on the back side of each grip is the same size as the grip screw threads. If you decide to test them by inserting a grip screw, do it carefully as not to chip out the Bakelite, since it is brittle!!!!

Good Luck

Sterling · 03-28-2004, 12:45 AM

Thanks Johnny, Frank and Bob, for the quick reply. This site looks like a great place with a lot of great people. I have decided to buy the pistol, and will immediately post the pictures here for your scrutiny. I look forward to your input, and soon I guess it will be time to look for a shooter, although I'm sure I'll need to put a mag or two through this one! That's not a terribly bad idea, is it?

Aaron · 03-28-2004, 03:36 AM

I just paid $1950 for the exact same rig. I don't think you can go wrong.

G.W. Gill · 03-28-2004, 03:37 AM

Stirling, I have a BYF 42 that used to be in the same condition. I stored it poorly. If we want to shoot our matching 42's, we should get the most breakable parts from Lugerdoc. How about it Doc, what would you recommend?. I cringe every time I shoot mine. That next shot might cost a bunch if I don't replace them and put them away. Would you tell us what we should set aside and still keep shooting. I will gladly send you mine to do the swap out.

Dwight Gruber · 03-28-2004, 03:58 AM

Guys,

Follow this link: Broken Parts Survey

Sterling · 03-31-2004, 03:43 PM

Pete Ebbink · 03-31-2004, 04:37 PM

Hello Sterling,

Man...that's a very, very nice luger rig ! Congratulations.

Your "DLU/1942 WaA 841" stamped holster was made in 1942 by the firm of Ewald Lunenschloss, Militareffekten-Fabrik located in Solingen (from E. Bender's large book on page 207).

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 03-31-2004, 04:59 PM

Sterling... what an excellent byf 42 specimen... and great photography too.

Herb · 03-31-2004, 05:03 PM

Do I see something here?
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/topgun.jpg

John Sabato · 03-31-2004, 05:21 PM

By golly you're right Herb...

The toggle has been renumbered from "54" to "24" so this gun is not completely number matched...

I completely missed that because I was so amazed by the condition of the finish...

Good eyes! I have inserted the image of the number "24" from the external side of the sideplate to show what it SHOULD have looked like on the toggle link...

Sterling · 03-31-2004, 06:06 PM

You are right guys...I never noticed it before. I have called the seller and he is refunding my money as he had promised.

Hey Herb, thanks a lot for using those eagle eyes of yours. Of course, I was cussing up a blue streak at your discovery, but I'm glad you found it. Flying high on a cloud one second, crash and burn the next. Looks like I came to the right place for advice and help. I enlarged that area with Photoshop from my original 11 meg photo, and it is very easy to see the "5" under the "2".

So apparently someone took a 54 part, restamped the 5 with a 2, and then reblued that area, is that a good guess? I assume there is no way it could have come from the factory that way, is there?

Thanks to all again. I think I'll stick with shooters for a while. Anyone know where I can get a decent shooter?....Sterling

Herb · 03-31-2004, 06:53 PM

Sterling, you are taking a good shooter back but next time try to find one for a little less money. Offer him $400 for it and see what happens. Now that he knows it's not a collector piece he might go for it. No way is it worth much over $400 having a restamped toggle, but those grips, if authentic, bring a good price.

lugercollector · 03-31-2004, 09:38 PM

That sure is strange(the overstamp)....the gun does looks a little too good to be true!!!....however,if someone went to the trouble of redoing it ,surely they would not have goofed up on the stamp??

Johnny C. Kitchens · 03-31-2004, 09:51 PM

I'm feeling for you on this one. At least you caught it before it was too far down the road. I hope you can find another one soon. On the other hand, that one would make a nice one to use...

Daniel · 03-31-2004, 10:41 PM

Sterling, offer him $500 for me. That luger is a steal at $400, there no ''shooters'' looking that good for that kind of money. If he won't take the 5 , then ask him ''How much ?'' Or better yet, send me his Email address and I'll do my own talkin'
Regards, Daniel

Sterling · 03-31-2004, 11:09 PM

I returned it to him about 2 hours ago. He looked at these posts, and then spoke with another collector who is familiar with the gun, and both of them find it hard to believe someone went to this trouble to restamp it, and they feel it would be nearly impossible, considering the finish. They both say there is no evidence any where on the weapon showing it has been reblued, including the toggle. In fact, there is still what the seller calls a "halo" around the 24(54) on the toggle, and the finish perfectly matches the rest of the gun. The seller is nearly convinced it must have come from the factory this way, as he and his friend can think of no way it could be otherwise, barring a really super-professional makeover, which he says seems like an awful lot of trouble, if even possible. I must admit, it seems puzzling, at least to my inexperienced mind.

Has anyone out there come across anything resembling this, with a restamp that is so nearly perfectly placed and blued?

I have my money back and there is certainly no way the seller was trying to put one over on me. He has the phone number of the person he bought it off of about a year ago, and he is going to contact him to see if he can advise anything as to it's history.

Meanwhile, he says he has another buyer who is familiar with the weapon and has seen these posts, and is still likely to purchase the gun at my aforementioned purchase price, or something close I think.

Sterling · 03-31-2004, 11:51 PM

Does anyone see any evidence or rebluing on this gun?

03-27-2004, 03:27 AM	#1
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Help with byf 42 Hello all...my first post as I've just recently joined, and would sure appreciate your help. Am finally deciding to take the P08 plunge after all these years, one reason being that a fellow I have worked with for many years and with whom I have always been good friends has just offered for sale to me the first luger he ever bought (he has four). He knew I was looking for one, and he came acoss a Broomhandle Mauser that he needs to get some money together for before it is gone. I don't know enough about these guns yet to trust my own judgement, so I beg your assistance. He has a 1942 byf 9mm 4 inch BW, and it is in the best condition of any P08 I have ever seen, in person anyway. He disassembled it for me, all the numbers match. I wish I could remember the four digit serial number, but it escapes me this late at night. From what I have seen on the internet and in person, I would have to say the gun and bluing is at 99%. Holster wear is virtually non-existant...maybe completely non-existant. Plastic grips are perfect. From what I can ascertain from the web and this site, all markings are as they should be. He told me he had a gunsmith familiar with lugers look at the bore, and he could not even tell for sure if it had been shot before. Of course no pitting anywhere on the pistol The grips look like they should from the pictures you all have referred to in past posts. The gun has not been reblued, and he showed me what to look for to be able to tell if one has been. Well, without rattling on anymore, you get the picture. I wish I had the pictures to post, but will eagerly, and maybe even nervously, do so if I purchase it. I say nervously, but I completely trust this fellow as to what he says about the weapon, but am just wanting to know what you all think, with this limited information, the gun and accessories might be worth. It has two black plastic bottomed fxo mags, and a holster with a tool. The holster is without a doubt the best I have seen as well, and he says the holster alone could fetch $400. The stitching is nice and white, and the holster has all the proper markings from what I can tell, and is a good black with no fading. It is also a 1942. He is asking $2000 for everything, and I don't think he will go any lower. If all is as he says it is, is this a fair price? I don't expect an incredible bargain, but want to pay a fair price. Thank you all for any and all responses.

03-27-2004, 03:48 AM	#2
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	If it is everything you say, it could be worth that much easily. Without seeing it, the people here will be severly disadvantaged at making a judgement call. If you could get some pictures of everything, especially a close up of a few places on the Luger so that a more accurate evaluation could be made. It would help greatly, especially in being able to tell if the bluing is orginal or not. One thing to consider, they aren't getting any cheaper as time passes. I bought my byf 42 in 1979, and many thought I was crazy to pay $475 for any handgun, then. I'm happy I splurged and bought it. Imagine the value of that setup, you are looking at, in 25 years!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

03-31-2004, 04:59 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Sterling... what an excellent byf 42 specimen... and great photography too. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-31-2004, 05:03 PM	#12
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Do I see something here? http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/topgun.jpg __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

03-31-2004, 05:21 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	By golly you're right Herb... The toggle has been renumbered from "54" to "24" so this gun is not completely number matched... I completely missed that because I was so amazed by the condition of the finish... Good eyes! I have inserted the image of the number "24" from the external side of the sideplate to show what it SHOULD have looked like on the toggle link... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-27-2004, 10:07 AM	#3
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	2K is many skins unless you are familiar with the gun or the seller. Sounds like you trust the seller. One option might be to buy the gun (trusting the seller) with a 3-5 day provision for a return. If the piece is as described, both seller and buyer will be happy and deal will be final and the 3-5 day is almost moot. The 3-5 days gives you some insuranc & the opportunity to photograph the piece and to share with others who are impartial and can better assess the value.

03-27-2004, 10:56 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Sterling, welcome to the Luger Forum. Based on your description, if the pistol is all you say it is, buy that little sucker!!!! The pistol alone might be sold for the $2K. One word of caution would be to make sure the grips are correct. There are some pretty sneaky people out there that are making some authentic looking grips. You have researched the photos on the Luger Forum, so you know what to look for. Make sure the threaded holes on the back side of each grip is the same size as the grip screw threads. If you decide to test them by inserting a grip screw, do it carefully as not to chip out the Bakelite, since it is brittle!!!! Good Luck

03-28-2004, 12:45 AM	#5
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Johnny, Frank and Bob, for the quick reply. This site looks like a great place with a lot of great people. I have decided to buy the pistol, and will immediately post the pictures here for your scrutiny. I look forward to your input, and soon I guess it will be time to look for a shooter, although I'm sure I'll need to put a mag or two through this one! That's not a terribly bad idea, is it?

03-28-2004, 03:36 AM	#6
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I just paid $1950 for the exact same rig. I don't think you can go wrong.

03-28-2004, 03:37 AM	#7
G.W. Gill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 369 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stirling, I have a BYF 42 that used to be in the same condition. I stored it poorly. If we want to shoot our matching 42's, we should get the most breakable parts from Lugerdoc. How about it Doc, what would you recommend?. I cringe every time I shoot mine. That next shot might cost a bunch if I don't replace them and put them away. Would you tell us what we should set aside and still keep shooting. I will gladly send you mine to do the swap out.

03-28-2004, 03:58 AM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Guys, Follow this link: Broken Parts Survey

03-31-2004, 03:43 PM	#9
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are the links to the pictures I promised in my orginal post of 3-27. If I need to supply others that may help with evaluation, just let me know. Any input as to an estimated value of the outfit, or any other input, will be greatly appreciated by this newcomer. Two books I ordered just came in, so the reading begins. Thanks to all....Sterling http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/allitems2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/allitems.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/backgun.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...ckholster2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...ackholster.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...gripbottom.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...elhsidegun.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/closerhgrip.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...rhsidegun2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/front_copy2.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holster_copy6.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/insidegun.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...ster_copy1.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/rhsidegun.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/topgun.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfuploa...erhsidegun.jpg

03-31-2004, 04:37 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Sterling, Man...that's a very, very nice luger rig ! Congratulations. Your "DLU/1942 WaA 841" stamped holster was made in 1942 by the firm of Ewald Lunenschloss, Militareffekten-Fabrik located in Solingen (from E. Bender's large book on page 207). Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-31-2004, 06:06 PM	#14
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You are right guys...I never noticed it before. I have called the seller and he is refunding my money as he had promised. Hey Herb, thanks a lot for using those eagle eyes of yours. Of course, I was cussing up a blue streak at your discovery, but I'm glad you found it. Flying high on a cloud one second, crash and burn the next. Looks like I came to the right place for advice and help. I enlarged that area with Photoshop from my original 11 meg photo, and it is very easy to see the "5" under the "2". So apparently someone took a 54 part, restamped the 5 with a 2, and then reblued that area, is that a good guess? I assume there is no way it could have come from the factory that way, is there? Thanks to all again. I think I'll stick with shooters for a while. Anyone know where I can get a decent shooter?....Sterling

03-31-2004, 06:53 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sterling, you are taking a good shooter back but next time try to find one for a little less money. Offer him $400 for it and see what happens. Now that he knows it's not a collector piece he might go for it. No way is it worth much over $400 having a restamped toggle, but those grips, if authentic, bring a good price. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

03-31-2004, 09:38 PM	#16
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	That sure is strange(the overstamp)....the gun does looks a little too good to be true!!!....however,if someone went to the trouble of redoing it ,surely they would not have goofed up on the stamp??

03-31-2004, 09:51 PM	#17
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	I'm feeling for you on this one. At least you caught it before it was too far down the road. I hope you can find another one soon. On the other hand, that one would make a nice one to use... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

03-31-2004, 10:41 PM	#18
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sterling, offer him $500 for me. That luger is a steal at $400, there no ''shooters'' looking that good for that kind of money. If he won't take the 5 , then ask him ''How much ?'' Or better yet, send me his Email address and I'll do my own talkin' Regards, Daniel

03-31-2004, 11:09 PM	#19
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I returned it to him about 2 hours ago. He looked at these posts, and then spoke with another collector who is familiar with the gun, and both of them find it hard to believe someone went to this trouble to restamp it, and they feel it would be nearly impossible, considering the finish. They both say there is no evidence any where on the weapon showing it has been reblued, including the toggle. In fact, there is still what the seller calls a "halo" around the 24(54) on the toggle, and the finish perfectly matches the rest of the gun. The seller is nearly convinced it must have come from the factory this way, as he and his friend can think of no way it could be otherwise, barring a really super-professional makeover, which he says seems like an awful lot of trouble, if even possible. I must admit, it seems puzzling, at least to my inexperienced mind. Has anyone out there come across anything resembling this, with a restamp that is so nearly perfectly placed and blued? I have my money back and there is certainly no way the seller was trying to put one over on me. He has the phone number of the person he bought it off of about a year ago, and he is going to contact him to see if he can advise anything as to it's history. Meanwhile, he says he has another buyer who is familiar with the weapon and has seen these posts, and is still likely to purchase the gun at my aforementioned purchase price, or something close I think.

03-31-2004, 11:51 PM	#20
Sterling User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Columbus Indiana Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does anyone see any evidence or rebluing on this gun?