My first 1913 DWM

[f100]

I’m happy to share some pictures of my new acquisition. A1913 DWM with a Bohlers barrel in its original blueing . Numbers matching inside and out . Grips aren’t numbered. Comments on it are invited. I’m not an expert on these . My three S/42’s are a 36,37 late and a BYF41 . The workmanship and tolerances seem tighter and better on this Luger than my later Lugers? I checked the toggle wiggle tolerances, and it’s way tighter than my other three. Even the trigger seems lighter.. enjoy and comments appreciated.

[klaus 3338]

It is a beauty, one of the first with the "T- Schiene".

[gunnertwo]

Nice pistol! Thanks for the share. I'm in Idaho also, down in Nampa.

G2

[HerrKaiser]

Very nice. The Imperial Lugers pre-WW1 are just fantastic pieces of workmanship. I try to keep myself pre-war as much as possible.

[f100]

I can’t find anywhere what a T- Schiene is ��. Am I glad it has one ?

[f100]

When visiting Berchtesgaden ,questions ? all was answered with “ have more beer “ “Prost” .

[wlyon]

Very nice 1913. However I feel the grips are replacements. Bill

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by f100

I can’t find anywhere what a T- Schiene is ��. Am I glad it has one ?

"T-Schiene" translates to "T-Rail" referring to the stock lug on the lower rear of the grip. The stock lug was used on the Navy and Artillery Lugers to attach a stock that effectively made the Luger into a carbine to be fired from the shoulder. Short barreled military Lugers didn't have a stock lug from 1909 when the first military Lugers were made until part way through 1913.

The year 1913 was a transition year and the first military Lugers made that year did not have a stock lug. Later in 1913 the military directed that all newly manufactured Lugers would have the stock lug. It aided manufacture as now only one type frame was used.

[f100]

Well described Doubs, Luger history is enjoyable to learn . I’ve read about the BO26 , Bohlers barrel from Austria. Am I right only some 1913-1914 Lugers got them ?

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by f100

Well described Doubs, Luger history is enjoyable to learn . I’ve read about the BO26 , Bohlers barrel from Austria. Am I right only some 1913-1914 Lugers got them ?

According to Gortz & Stutgess, page 455 in the Red Books, Bohler marked Luger barrels are only found during a short period between 1913 & 1914.

[HerrKaiser]

As I recall reading somewhere, almost all of DWM’s pre-war barrel steel (I want to say also all the gun steel writ large) was sourced from the Böhler steel corporation because of DWM’s exacting standards (and contract stipulations) for metallurgical quality. They are marked on some of the 1913 and 1914 guns as such, but almost all 1914 and prior Luger barrels were made with that steel. If I am incorrect I am happy to be educated as such.

[Doubs]

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

As I recall reading somewhere, almost all of DWM’s pre-war barrel steel (I want to say also all the gun steel writ large) was sourced from the Böhler steel corporation because of DWM’s exacting standards (and contract stipulations) for metallurgical quality. They are marked on some of the 1913 and 1914 guns as such, but almost all 1914 and prior Luger barrels were made with that steel. If I am incorrect I am happy to be educated as such.

Gortz & Sturgess seem conflicted on this matter as on page 650 of the red books they say that by the end of 1916 the Swiss were acquiring barrel steel from Bohler - who also provide barrel steel to DWM for P.08 pistols - in order to begin making their own Lugers. Due to wartime shortages of materials in Germany and Austria, the Swiss were supplying alloys to Bohler to make the steel for Switzerland.

Then, on page 1055, they say that in 1913 the barrel steel was changed to a generalized cast crucible steel for the P.08 barrels but they don't know if Bohler steel was continued to be used for commercial Lugers. The steel change coincided with the beginning of the Bohler markings on DWM Luger barrels so they think the Bohler markings were to differentiate between the steels.

Somewhat confusing I think. Did Bohler continue supplying steel to DWM throughout the war or not? Was it the original formulation or the newer cast crucible steel?

[HerrKaiser]

Originally Posted by Doubs

Gortz & Sturgess seem conflicted on this matter as on page 650 of the red books they say that by the end of 1916 the Swiss were acquiring barrel steel from Bohler - who also provide barrel steel to DWM for P.08 pistols - in order to begin making their own Lugers. Due to wartime shortages of materials in Germany and Austria, the Swiss were supplying alloys to Bohler to make the steel for Switzerland.

Then, on page 1055, they say that in 1913 the barrel steel was changed to a generalized cast crucible steel for the P.08 barrels but they don't know if Bohler steel was continued to be used for commercial Lugers. The steel change coincided with the beginning of the Bohler markings on DWM Luger barrels so they think the Bohler markings were to differentiate between the steels.

Somewhat confusing I think. Did Bohler continue supplying steel to DWM throughout the war or not? Was it the original formulation or the newer cast crucible steel?

Based on what I have read from Mauser and k98 forums, it seems that DWM had also contracted with Böhler for quite some time for their rifle barrel steels as well. The Bö marked barrels were, as you alluded to, a new type of treatment or casting process done to the steels. As best I can ascertain from G&S as well as other German weapon forums dealing with DWM produced firearms, it seems Böhler was the primary provider of steel to DWM pre-war.

That the Swiss would contract with them for Steel to make their own Lugers would support this assumption that Böhler was the sole provider. It would make little sense for DWM, who was making military and commercial Luger concurrently, to source different steels and differentiate the steels for given barrel blanks that could easily be purposed for either commercial or military purposes. Given that DWM contracts to Switzerland and other countries would have been “commercial” production, it would imply that DWM commercial guns would have also had the Böhler steel.

[f100]

I thought I’d give a glimpse of the barrels condition, thoughts of WW1, 1919-1933 era , pre WW2 and during. Finally coming to America with a GI in a 1942 p.08 holster . Earlier talks about excellence in build. Showing very blueing loss on sides of toggle and slides where my later p.08’s show much more wear points .

[HerrKaiser]

In talking with some other collectors in Germany who have much better information than even I do about the barrel steel sources:

Böhler as a contractor/supplier of steel has been secured. DWM also had close contacts to Krupp, Essen and as we know Krupp was a common supplier of barrel steel. For that Krupp/Essen as supplier of barrel steel for the DWM was probable...Further Mannesmann had close Business contracts with DWM at this time...
Means:
Böhler is secured
Krupp/Essen is probable
Mannesmann is probable

We know that the barrels of the P04 should be made with Böhler steel, the same material that was used for the rifles 98 and some DWM barrels in 1913/14 show the Böhler numbers. May be it changed in 1911 when Erfurt rifle factory began to made Lugers too. But I think it's possible that DWM used only Böhler steel.

This is from Klaus and Tom Pompe over in Germany.

[paxton62]

beautiful weapon! enjoy it.......they are addicting!

[f100]

And fun to shoot. I tried my 1937 S/42 at about 22 feet at 74 years old , and my p.38 (top target (Luger lower ) I put in a donor toggle for safekeeping on the 37 and a stronger slide on my p.38 BYF44 . So I’m enjoying both collecting and shooting. The toggle action is amazing.

[SegaDreamcast]

Nice shooting! Also, love the pistol stands, they look great.