Latest Acquisitions

JohnF · 04-01-2003, 12:00 PM

I know that there are some forum members who are industriously building databases for the benefit of the rest of us so here are the details of 3 new Lugers that I have acquired to add to the data range.

1) 1941 dated Mauser Banner Police E/L. Drilled for sear safety but it does not appear to have been fitted. S/N 9906x
2) 1936 dated code S/42 S/N 7039L
3) 1939 dated code 42 S/N 6338W - this one has black widow grips which appear to me to be original.

I hope that this is of interest.
Cheers,
John

jamese · 04-01-2003, 12:12 PM

John,
care to share any photos,
would really like to see the 1941 and 1936

thanks you for sharing,
Jim

Frank · 04-01-2003, 02:04 PM

John, congrats!! While your grips on the 1939 may be original, they don't belong on the pistol. Black Bakelite grips weren't used on Military Mausers until 1941.

JohnF · 04-01-2003, 02:20 PM

Hi Frank,
What do you feel about Still's statement in Third Reich Lugers that the black grips started to appear in late 1939 and are present on about 2% of the reported code 42 pistols?
I have to say that, other than this, I wouldn't know myself. I'd like to think that these grips fell into the 2% but I'm still on a pretty steep learning curve.
Cheers,
John

Frank · 04-01-2003, 06:22 PM

John, some recent data has been found that approved the use of the bakelite grips and plastic bottom magazines in June 1941 (I think the month is correct, but it could be off a little). That being the case, anything earlier with bakelite grips would have been a field replacement or a post war replacement.

I'm also not sure about the 2 percent. I have seen more wood grips on byf 42 Lugers than black bakelite, but I can't say they are original since I didn't remove them.

Still a nice pistol either way!!

JohnF · 04-01-2003, 07:20 PM

Thanks Frank,
This sort of stuff is absolutely fascinating and I'm constantly amazed at the research that people have done. I'll try to post some pics of the Lugers in the next few days. They're not in fabulous condition but I like them. As all my guns are dewats anyway the condition scarcely matters.
By the way, I wasn't clear in my report of what Still said - he meant 2% of 1939 code 42 pistols had black grips. The black grip figures for 1941 and 1942 are quoted as 20% in his book.
In my own personal sample the figures are 50% black grips on 1939 code 42s, 100% black grips on BYF41s and 100% wood grips on BYF 42s. :-)
Cheers,
John

Robert McCrory · 04-04-2003, 10:52 AM

My posting below of "1920 Luger Markings" has all the info one might want to include in a data base.
Feel free to include it if it is of interest.

Silvereagle29 · 04-06-2003, 07:10 PM

John
I don't know how your message appeared with my name on it, sorry about that. Maybe the Webmaster will fix my error. (your 'oops' post deleted by the everwatchful admin guy - me! JS)

Thanks for the serial numbers, I will enter the information into the data base. Your 1941 Banner number 9906x most likely had a sear safety when it left the Police Depot in Berlin. These can be found if you would like to put the pistol back to original condition. Can you tell me if any of your new pistols have any matching magazines. Your 1939-42 has an interesting serial number. You should check 6338w to determine if the pistols is in the transition from the SE-63 SE-63 (Large) to SE-655 SE-655. The transition pistols will have a large SE-63 and a SE-655. What do you see on this pistol as far as acceptance marks are concerned. Black plastic grips were authorized for issue in June of 1941. If you want a set of original Mauser wood base grips, I might have a set. Thanks Don

JohnF · 04-07-2003, 05:53 AM

Hi Don,
I've had a look at the 1939 code 42. Nothing too interesting to report I'm afraid - the markings on the right are SE-655, SE-655 and the Heer test proof. This clearly isn't a transition model but I suppose that it may help to define the boundaries of the transition.
Regarding the sear safety on the Banner Police, I'm still a bit of a novice so I can't be certain that one wasn't removed. That area didn't look modified to me but if you can tell me what to look for I'll check it out.
Thanks for the offer of the grips but I have an unnumbered set already on a mismatched Luger that I got in the same lot as these 3. (It's actually quite a curious one - all the numbers appear to match but the frame and it's associated small parts, grips etc. are Mauser and everything else is Simson.) I might sell the BW grips - any idea of what they might go for?
Best regards,
John

John Sabato · 04-07-2003, 10:14 AM

They can go for quite a bit on eBay if they are in good shape... I have seen them sell for as little as $50 and as much as $200+

saxman · 04-07-2003, 12:50 PM

If it has the original sideplate but no sear safety, look at the top edge of the sideplate; if it has a long, narrow opening, it had a sear safety in the past. Otherwise, the top edge of the sideplate would be solid (no opening). There must be other signs, but I'm not that familiar with the police guns.

JohnF · 04-07-2003, 01:19 PM

Now I've learned something else new. There is a long narrow opening on the top of the sideplate so a sear safety was fitted. I thought that it was all to do with the pin that engages with the drilled hole. I really must get that Luger mechanicals ebook.

04-01-2003, 12:00 PM	#1
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Latest Acquisitions I know that there are some forum members who are industriously building databases for the benefit of the rest of us so here are the details of 3 new Lugers that I have acquired to add to the data range. 1) 1941 dated Mauser Banner Police E/L. Drilled for sear safety but it does not appear to have been fitted. S/N 9906x 2) 1936 dated code S/42 S/N 7039L 3) 1939 dated code 42 S/N 6338W - this one has black widow grips which appear to me to be original. I hope that this is of interest. Cheers, John

04-01-2003, 12:12 PM	#2
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 792 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 36 Posts	John, care to share any photos, would really like to see the 1941 and 1936 thanks you for sharing, Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

04-04-2003, 10:52 AM	#7
Robert McCrory User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My posting below of "1920 Luger Markings" has all the info one might want to include in a data base. Feel free to include it if it is of interest. __________________ Life is 10% what you make it, 90% how you take it! 5

04-07-2003, 10:14 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	They can go for quite a bit on eBay if they are in good shape... I have seen them sell for as little as $50 and as much as $200+ __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-07-2003, 12:50 PM	#11
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If it has the original sideplate but no sear safety, look at the top edge of the sideplate; if it has a long, narrow opening, it had a sear safety in the past. Otherwise, the top edge of the sideplate would be solid (no opening). There must be other signs, but I'm not that familiar with the police guns. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

04-01-2003, 02:04 PM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	John, congrats!! While your grips on the 1939 may be original, they don't belong on the pistol. Black Bakelite grips weren't used on Military Mausers until 1941.

04-01-2003, 02:20 PM	#4
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Frank, What do you feel about Still's statement in Third Reich Lugers that the black grips started to appear in late 1939 and are present on about 2% of the reported code 42 pistols? I have to say that, other than this, I wouldn't know myself. I'd like to think that these grips fell into the 2% but I'm still on a pretty steep learning curve. Cheers, John

04-01-2003, 06:22 PM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	John, some recent data has been found that approved the use of the bakelite grips and plastic bottom magazines in June 1941 (I think the month is correct, but it could be off a little). That being the case, anything earlier with bakelite grips would have been a field replacement or a post war replacement. I'm also not sure about the 2 percent. I have seen more wood grips on byf 42 Lugers than black bakelite, but I can't say they are original since I didn't remove them. Still a nice pistol either way!!

04-01-2003, 07:20 PM	#6
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Frank, This sort of stuff is absolutely fascinating and I'm constantly amazed at the research that people have done. I'll try to post some pics of the Lugers in the next few days. They're not in fabulous condition but I like them. As all my guns are dewats anyway the condition scarcely matters. By the way, I wasn't clear in my report of what Still said - he meant 2% of 1939 code 42 pistols had black grips. The black grip figures for 1941 and 1942 are quoted as 20% in his book. In my own personal sample the figures are 50% black grips on 1939 code 42s, 100% black grips on BYF41s and 100% wood grips on BYF 42s. :-) Cheers, John

04-06-2003, 07:10 PM	#8
Silvereagle29 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	John I don't know how your message appeared with my name on it, sorry about that. Maybe the Webmaster will fix my error. (your 'oops' post deleted by the everwatchful admin guy - me! JS) Thanks for the serial numbers, I will enter the information into the data base. Your 1941 Banner number 9906x most likely had a sear safety when it left the Police Depot in Berlin. These can be found if you would like to put the pistol back to original condition. Can you tell me if any of your new pistols have any matching magazines. Your 1939-42 has an interesting serial number. You should check 6338w to determine if the pistols is in the transition from the SE-63 SE-63 (Large) to SE-655 SE-655. The transition pistols will have a large SE-63 and a SE-655. What do you see on this pistol as far as acceptance marks are concerned. Black plastic grips were authorized for issue in June of 1941. If you want a set of original Mauser wood base grips, I might have a set. Thanks Don

04-07-2003, 05:53 AM	#9
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi Don, I've had a look at the 1939 code 42. Nothing too interesting to report I'm afraid - the markings on the right are SE-655, SE-655 and the Heer test proof. This clearly isn't a transition model but I suppose that it may help to define the boundaries of the transition. Regarding the sear safety on the Banner Police, I'm still a bit of a novice so I can't be certain that one wasn't removed. That area didn't look modified to me but if you can tell me what to look for I'll check it out. Thanks for the offer of the grips but I have an unnumbered set already on a mismatched Luger that I got in the same lot as these 3. (It's actually quite a curious one - all the numbers appear to match but the frame and it's associated small parts, grips etc. are Mauser and everything else is Simson.) I might sell the BW grips - any idea of what they might go for? Best regards, John

04-07-2003, 01:19 PM	#12
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Now I've learned something else new. There is a long narrow opening on the top of the sideplate so a sear safety was fitted. I thought that it was all to do with the pin that engages with the drilled hole. I really must get that Luger mechanicals ebook.