Machining marks

kidvett · 09-04-2002, 09:58 AM

A 1940 Code 42 C block NOT SHOWING the usual circular machining marks on the right rear frame section.

What would be the explanation? It's the first one that I see NICE like this!

Anybody has similar sightings?

kidvett [img]confused.gif[/img]

lugerholsterrepair · 09-04-2002, 11:00 AM

Kidvett, Kinda looks sandblasted to me. Nice photo! There should be machine marks here on this late pistol unless someone has messed with it. Jerry Burney

Luke · 09-04-2002, 11:33 AM

Looks like a beautiful refinishing job.

Johnny Peppers · 09-04-2002, 12:27 PM

Things are not always as they appear in a digital photo (pixellation?), but I agree that the area appears to have been either bead or sandblasted. Is that an area of pitting just above the left corner of the grip, or is it digital gremlins?

Hugh · 09-04-2002, 02:02 PM

I agree, it looks like a nice refinish job. I also agree with Johnny, that sure looks like an area of fine pitting that the buffer missed just above the grip. [img]eek.gif[/img]

Navy · 09-04-2002, 02:21 PM

Check the fine pitting top of backstrap just under the rear of the receiver...blued over pitting...its a re-do.

Doubs · 09-04-2002, 04:54 PM

There's nothing I can add to the observations of the others except that you have taken a really outstanding picture. Truly super quality! I'd be interested in the technical info for the shot: camera, lighting, etc. Did you use a ring flash? I'd like to have a ring flash but they cost half as much as my camera which wasn't cheap!

kidvett · 09-04-2002, 04:58 PM

[img]frown.gif[/img] SAD! I thought I had something nice....( I knew it was unsual but in the Luger world sometimes exceptions are the rule....)and the owner told me it was brought back from WWII like that.

I'll look more closely at the pistol and will try to make good close up PICS to see if it's original or not....and if it's not: I'LL GET RID OF IT!

<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

an unhappy kidvett [img]frown.gif[/img]

kidvett · 09-04-2002, 05:04 PM

Hi Doubs,

I use a scanner: resolution 300 or 600 and I isolate the section I want. My computer is not 100% color wise, that's why it is so much yellow....normaly I adjust the exposition & color better...

Scanner is HP 2200C

kidvett

kidvett · 09-04-2002, 05:28 PM

While I get better PICS, the early ones I made of the pistol.

Help is much needed in establishing autenticity.... the idea that I bought a fake is ruining my day [img]eek.gif[/img]

Thanks to everyone for the help,

kidvett [img]frown.gif[/img]

John Sabato · 09-04-2002, 05:49 PM

Kidvett,

I don't know what you paid for it, but it is still a nice looking Luger.

Your scanner doesn't do a half bad job of capturing images... what you need is some good graphic software. I use Paint Shop Pro Version 7 (JASC.COM) and a couple of mouse clicks of color balance and contrast enhancement and your photos are much improved. Here are your photos after the enhancement process:

Lonnie Zimmerman · 09-04-2002, 10:22 PM

I was the paint and sandblasting manager at the Portland Ship Repair yard for many years, and this is an example of BEAD blasting. The area just above the grip is an example of "overblast". Sorry for the bad news.
Lonnie

ToggleTop · 09-04-2002, 10:51 PM

Kidvett,
I have a 1940-42 Code in the "a" block and I hate to disagree but the areas on both sides of mine appear to be very close to yours. There may be just the slightest of indication of machine marks. I have had mine since 1966 bought it from the Vet for $125.00 with two matching magazines & 1940 dated holster. Before you give up on the pistol be sure to look at it close, you may have a very good one. The grips on your pistol appear in color very close to mine. The overall condition of your pistol does not give an indication of being refinished or reblued. If you sell it, let me know.

Garfield · 09-04-2002, 11:51 PM

Toggletop:

I have an early 1940-42 and will agree that the milling marks in the area of the "ears" are minimal, however, there is a difference between "minimal" and "no-existant" as the pics of Kidvett's appear to illustrate.

Kidvett: Before you dump your pistol, I'd have a disinterested person who has some knowledge take a look at your pistol. I might be allright. Pictures are nice, however, as John S has so grafically demonstrated, with enhancements, etc., things appear not as they exist.

Good Luck

ToggleTop · 09-05-2002, 12:09 AM

Garfield,
I don't care what people say about you, I believe you are a good person. Your post always make a lot of sense! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Johnny Peppers · 09-05-2002, 12:30 AM

After reading ToggleTops post I seemed to remember that I had seen a pistol with almost the same finish in the milled out areas. After some thought the pistol turned out to be a 42 chamber dated Mauser Banner Commercial. The milled out areas show a definite matte finish, and when viewed under 10X magnification the sandblasting is evident. The milling marks definitely show on this Mauser Banner, but there is also evidence of the sandblasting over the milling marks. Supposedly the Mauser Banners were a good place to use parts that were slightly out of spec for the military, and these parts were simply used on the non-military pistols. I have no explaination for the sandblasting being used on a militry contract pistol, but apparently the practice of sandblasting was in use during this period of manufacture. Thanks for jarring my memory.
I'm not sure when bead blasting came into use, but the US military specifications called for sand blasting before the finish was applied in 1941 for Colt and in 1942 for the other manufacturers. For a brief time Du-Lite blueing was used over the sandblasting before phosphate (Parkerizing) was specified.

kidvett · 09-05-2002, 03:48 PM

I was able to make new PICS: stripped frame & receiver right side ( sorry scanner problems ). I seems that the top portion of the frame was bead blasted...The receiver doesn't look reblued to me...So what's the call on that frame/ receiver: original or not...help appreciated...

Third image edited by rotating to improve viewability on the forum -JS

Many thanks to everyone

kidvett [img]confused.gif[/img]

kidvett · 09-05-2002, 03:57 PM

Just to compare: 1940 Code 42 Ser no 3790 i , that one IS ORIGINAL...

Again many thanks to everyone helping ID the other one...

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

Aaron · 09-05-2002, 04:49 PM

I do not have a 1940 code 42 Luger, but I did check the machining on my 1940 Mauser Banner Police, and the "ears" are perfectly smooth, just like the above example.

John Sabato · 09-05-2002, 05:04 PM

INHO the grip frame on your Luger has been bead/sand blasted and refinished... probably to remove pitting...

The upper assembly does not appear to have suffered that treatment.

just my $0.02 worth of opinion.

09-04-2002, 09:58 AM	#1
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Machining marks A 1940 Code 42 C block NOT SHOWING the usual circular machining marks on the right rear frame section. What would be the explanation? It's the first one that I see NICE like this! Anybody has similar sightings? kidvett [img]confused.gif[/img]

09-04-2002, 11:00 AM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,439 Posts	Kidvett, Kinda looks sandblasted to me. Nice photo! There should be machine marks here on this late pistol unless someone has messed with it. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-04-2002, 11:33 AM	#3
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Looks like a beautiful refinishing job. __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

09-04-2002, 02:02 PM	#5
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	I agree, it looks like a nice refinish job. I also agree with Johnny, that sure looks like an area of fine pitting that the buffer missed just above the grip. [img]eek.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-04-2002, 05:49 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Kidvett, I don't know what you paid for it, but it is still a nice looking Luger. Your scanner doesn't do a half bad job of capturing images... what you need is some good graphic software. I use Paint Shop Pro Version 7 (JASC.COM) and a couple of mouse clicks of color balance and contrast enhancement and your photos are much improved. Here are your photos after the enhancement process: __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-04-2002, 12:27 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Things are not always as they appear in a digital photo (pixellation?), but I agree that the area appears to have been either bead or sandblasted. Is that an area of pitting just above the left corner of the grip, or is it digital gremlins?

09-04-2002, 02:21 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Check the fine pitting top of backstrap just under the rear of the receiver...blued over pitting...its a re-do.

09-04-2002, 04:54 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,742 Thanks: 826 Thanked 1,788 Times in 590 Posts	There's nothing I can add to the observations of the others except that you have taken a really outstanding picture. Truly super quality! I'd be interested in the technical info for the shot: camera, lighting, etc. Did you use a ring flash? I'd like to have a ring flash but they cost half as much as my camera which wasn't cheap!

09-04-2002, 04:58 PM	#8
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	[img]frown.gif[/img] SAD! I thought I had something nice....( I knew it was unsual but in the Luger world sometimes exceptions are the rule....)and the owner told me it was brought back from WWII like that. I'll look more closely at the pistol and will try to make good close up PICS to see if it's original or not....and if it's not: I'LL GET RID OF IT! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> an unhappy kidvett [img]frown.gif[/img]

09-04-2002, 05:04 PM	#9
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Doubs, I use a scanner: resolution 300 or 600 and I isolate the section I want. My computer is not 100% color wise, that's why it is so much yellow....normaly I adjust the exposition & color better... Scanner is HP 2200C kidvett

09-04-2002, 05:28 PM	#10
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	While I get better PICS, the early ones I made of the pistol. Help is much needed in establishing autenticity.... the idea that I bought a fake is ruining my day [img]eek.gif[/img] Thanks to everyone for the help, kidvett [img]frown.gif[/img]

09-04-2002, 10:22 PM	#12
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I was the paint and sandblasting manager at the Portland Ship Repair yard for many years, and this is an example of BEAD blasting. The area just above the grip is an example of "overblast". Sorry for the bad news. Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Zimmerman

09-04-2002, 10:51 PM	#13
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Kidvett, I have a 1940-42 Code in the "a" block and I hate to disagree but the areas on both sides of mine appear to be very close to yours. There may be just the slightest of indication of machine marks. I have had mine since 1966 bought it from the Vet for $125.00 with two matching magazines & 1940 dated holster. Before you give up on the pistol be sure to look at it close, you may have a very good one. The grips on your pistol appear in color very close to mine. The overall condition of your pistol does not give an indication of being refinished or reblued. If you sell it, let me know. __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

09-04-2002, 11:51 PM	#14
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Toggletop: I have an early 1940-42 and will agree that the milling marks in the area of the "ears" are minimal, however, there is a difference between "minimal" and "no-existant" as the pics of Kidvett's appear to illustrate. Kidvett: Before you dump your pistol, I'd have a disinterested person who has some knowledge take a look at your pistol. I might be allright. Pictures are nice, however, as John S has so grafically demonstrated, with enhancements, etc., things appear not as they exist. Good Luck

09-05-2002, 12:09 AM	#15
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Garfield, I don't care what people say about you, I believe you are a good person. Your post always make a lot of sense! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

09-05-2002, 12:30 AM	#16
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	After reading ToggleTops post I seemed to remember that I had seen a pistol with almost the same finish in the milled out areas. After some thought the pistol turned out to be a 42 chamber dated Mauser Banner Commercial. The milled out areas show a definite matte finish, and when viewed under 10X magnification the sandblasting is evident. The milling marks definitely show on this Mauser Banner, but there is also evidence of the sandblasting over the milling marks. Supposedly the Mauser Banners were a good place to use parts that were slightly out of spec for the military, and these parts were simply used on the non-military pistols. I have no explaination for the sandblasting being used on a militry contract pistol, but apparently the practice of sandblasting was in use during this period of manufacture. Thanks for jarring my memory. I'm not sure when bead blasting came into use, but the US military specifications called for sand blasting before the finish was applied in 1941 for Colt and in 1942 for the other manufacturers. For a brief time Du-Lite blueing was used over the sandblasting before phosphate (Parkerizing) was specified.

09-05-2002, 03:48 PM	#17
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I was able to make new PICS: stripped frame & receiver right side ( sorry scanner problems ). I seems that the top portion of the frame was bead blasted...The receiver doesn't look reblued to me...So what's the call on that frame/ receiver: original or not...help appreciated... Third image edited by rotating to improve viewability on the forum -JS Many thanks to everyone kidvett [img]confused.gif[/img]

09-05-2002, 03:57 PM	#18
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Just to compare: 1940 Code 42 Ser no 3790 i , that one IS ORIGINAL... Again many thanks to everyone helping ID the other one... kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

09-05-2002, 04:49 PM	#19
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I do not have a 1940 code 42 Luger, but I did check the machining on my 1940 Mauser Banner Police, and the "ears" are perfectly smooth, just like the above example.

09-05-2002, 05:04 PM	#20
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	INHO the grip frame on your Luger has been bead/sand blasted and refinished... probably to remove pitting... The upper assembly does not appear to have suffered that treatment. just my $0.02 worth of opinion. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*