Hold Open Assembly

unitedcs · 04-05-2017, 09:25 PM

Hello, I was wondering if someone could provide direction with an issue I'm having. I recently aquired a hold open assembly for my DWM 1918. The HO went in fine but will not function correctly. It seems that the follower button is not lifting high enough to engage. From reading the archives I believe that it may be that the spring is to strong as the HO moves freely. I've tried several diff mags with the same results. The archive said to polish with a dremel but I don't understand how this would lighten the spring. Should the spring be shortened, narrowed or made thinner? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks

Ron Wood · 04-05-2017, 10:14 PM

You may have a worn magazine release button. Try firing the gun while pushing up on the bottom of the magazine and see if the hold open works.
Ron

unitedcs · 04-05-2017, 10:44 PM

thanks, i'll give that a try first, never occured to me

DonVoigt · 04-06-2017, 08:23 AM

First,
try another magazine.
If the mag spring is "weak", the hold open may not work.

Be sure the hold open moves very freely, they often need fitting.
Thinning the spring over all will weaken it if it is too strong- but this is a very delicate operation.

It is most likely the magazine or a tight fit of the hold open itself

Rick W. · 04-06-2017, 12:16 PM

If you remove the right grip........carefully of course; you will be able to observe the mag button/hold-open interface. At the mag button's highest point is when the hold open is engaged upwards, when the button is lower, it does not engage the hold open. I have never experienced a too strong hold open spring myself, but as usual, not out much either.

One might surmise that the button is too small a diameter, the mag's recess for the locking piece is worn, or perhaps the push button mag locking surfaces have worn down.

guess could be a physical interference between the grip/mag button........only near the top of the magazine body area........

Just guesses in the blue..........something to look at anyway.

4 Scale · 04-06-2017, 05:37 PM

In addition to the solid advice already offered I would add:
1. Make sure the hold open spring is fully pushed in so that it doesn't scrape on the frame and interfere with operation.
2. I have one hold open in a '38 Mauser 'shooter' that simply sits low, even though it is numbered to the gun. The pressure required to manually lift this hold open is not excessive so I don't think the hold open spring is the issue. Magazine expert G.T. saved the part by trying many magazines until we found an older Mec Gar with a larger follower button that would push it up enough to work.

After about a year of perfect operation, the hold open returned to its unreliable ways even with our "special" magazine. G.T. then installed a stronger magazine spring, now at 18 months and counting this 'rig' is holding-open perfectly on last round. So my experience is, when nothing else works, consider different mags/stronger magazine springs.

mrerick · 04-06-2017, 07:29 PM

Don't attempt to do magazine work without the proper tools and mandrels. If your magazine needs some TLC, send it to Gerald "G.T." for the work. You won't regret it...

unitedcs · 04-09-2017, 07:11 PM

Well, after messing with it all weekend, I can now get the hold open to engage sporadically. The HO definitely needed fitting and now moves with ease. I think it's most likely a worn magazine release button as Ron had said but not 100% sure. It does engage when the mag is pushed up tight and the release button is slightly worn. What I did notice is that the HO spring is coming in contact with the barrel assem. when reassembled. I don't know if this correct as it seems it's putting additional downward pressure on the HO spring. Anyway, closer than I was with everyone's assistance.

DonVoigt · 04-09-2017, 07:35 PM

You will have to eliminate the contact between the HO and the receiver, or it will never work correctly.

I've had that situation, and a little file work on the tip of the HO spring, or the "bow" needs working down. After market springs tend to be much thicker than originals- that may be the problem here.

unitedcs · 04-10-2017, 05:24 AM

Thank you Don, that's what I figured but was unsure. The spring being in contact with receiver is not right.

deltafox · 06-03-2017, 07:29 PM

Guys,

My 1918 DWM Hold Open broke today. After only 5 shots the toggle opened as usual, put some rounds on the magazine but it never went to the front again.

Latter a friend dismounted the pistol and said that the Hold Open is broken...

Is this a common problem? He said that the HO has a blue color, like burned by heat, maybe because no oil in that part.

I use Geco 124 gr ammo, are they too strong and could they contribute to the problem?

Thanks

mrerick · 06-03-2017, 09:10 PM

Well, the pistol is 100 years old... The part is hardened which may relate to it's color. Sometimes hardened parts chip when they are brittle.

If the GECO is NATO power (made for machine guns) it could well be doing damage. If standard velocity, could relate to the gun's cycling balance and the state of the recoil spring.

DonVoigt · 06-03-2017, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltafox

Guys,

My 1918 DWM Hold Open broke today. After only 5 shots the toggle opened as usual, put some rounds on the magazine but it never went to the front again.

Latter a friend dismounted the pistol and said that the Hold Open is broken...

Is this a common problem? He said that the HO has a blue color, like burned by heat, maybe because no oil in that part.

I use Geco 124 gr ammo, are they too strong and could they contribute to the problem?

Thanks

Better to start your own thread with pictures of the pieces.

The hold open normally has a "blue" spot from annealing during the mfg process. Not burned and not from no oil.

They do not break "often", springs do sometimes.
Just chalk it up to bad luck and buy a replacement.

Or just use it without a hold open, it is not required- but do remove the broken pieces.

deltafox · 06-05-2017, 12:02 PM

I´ll receive the pistol tomorrow and then I'll put some photos.
Thanks

Sky Zero · 06-05-2017, 05:37 PM

Don,

can you replace just the spring?

DonVoigt · 06-05-2017, 10:12 PM

Yes.
Best to get an original, the after market springs require a bit fitting- sometimes more than a bid.

Lugerdoc can fix you up.

unitedcs · 06-06-2017, 07:59 AM

Sky I had the same problem. Lugerdoc is the way to go. He sent me a hold open assembly and after a little fitting was good as new. The only issue I had fitting it was the spring was coming into contact with the cannon but with a little adjustment it worked fine. Good luck. Rick

mccaslyn · 06-06-2017, 09:51 AM

Had a similar problem. The soloution was a new ho spring. Got it from numrich went right in and works perfect

04-05-2017, 09:25 PM	#1
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Hold Open Assembly Hello, I was wondering if someone could provide direction with an issue I'm having. I recently aquired a hold open assembly for my DWM 1918. The HO went in fine but will not function correctly. It seems that the follower button is not lifting high enough to engage. From reading the archives I believe that it may be that the spring is to strong as the HO moves freely. I've tried several diff mags with the same results. The archive said to polish with a dremel but I don't understand how this would lighten the spring. Should the spring be shortened, narrowed or made thinner? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks

04-05-2017, 10:14 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	You may have a worn magazine release button. Try firing the gun while pushing up on the bottom of the magazine and see if the hold open works. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

04-06-2017, 08:23 AM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	First, try another magazine. If the mag spring is "weak", the hold open may not work. Be sure the hold open moves very freely, they often need fitting. Thinning the spring over all will weaken it if it is too strong- but this is a very delicate operation. It is most likely the magazine or a tight fit of the hold open itself __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-06-2017, 07:29 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Don't attempt to do magazine work without the proper tools and mandrels. If your magazine needs some TLC, send it to Gerald "G.T." for the work. You won't regret it... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-09-2017, 07:35 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	You will have to eliminate the contact between the HO and the receiver, or it will never work correctly. I've had that situation, and a little file work on the tip of the HO spring, or the "bow" needs working down. After market springs tend to be much thicker than originals- that may be the problem here. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-05-2017, 10:44 PM	#3
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	thanks, i'll give that a try first, never occured to me

04-06-2017, 12:16 PM	#5
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	If you remove the right grip........carefully of course; you will be able to observe the mag button/hold-open interface. At the mag button's highest point is when the hold open is engaged upwards, when the button is lower, it does not engage the hold open. I have never experienced a too strong hold open spring myself, but as usual, not out much either. One might surmise that the button is too small a diameter, the mag's recess for the locking piece is worn, or perhaps the push button mag locking surfaces have worn down. guess could be a physical interference between the grip/mag button........only near the top of the magazine body area........ Just guesses in the blue..........something to look at anyway.

04-06-2017, 05:37 PM	#6
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 490 Times in 251 Posts	In addition to the solid advice already offered I would add: 1. Make sure the hold open spring is fully pushed in so that it doesn't scrape on the frame and interfere with operation. 2. I have one hold open in a '38 Mauser 'shooter' that simply sits low, even though it is numbered to the gun. The pressure required to manually lift this hold open is not excessive so I don't think the hold open spring is the issue. Magazine expert G.T. saved the part by trying many magazines until we found an older Mec Gar with a larger follower button that would push it up enough to work. After about a year of perfect operation, the hold open returned to its unreliable ways even with our "special" magazine. G.T. then installed a stronger magazine spring, now at 18 months and counting this 'rig' is holding-open perfectly on last round. So my experience is, when nothing else works, consider different mags/stronger magazine springs.

04-09-2017, 07:11 PM	#8
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Well, after messing with it all weekend, I can now get the hold open to engage sporadically. The HO definitely needed fitting and now moves with ease. I think it's most likely a worn magazine release button as Ron had said but not 100% sure. It does engage when the mag is pushed up tight and the release button is slightly worn. What I did notice is that the HO spring is coming in contact with the barrel assem. when reassembled. I don't know if this correct as it seems it's putting additional downward pressure on the HO spring. Anyway, closer than I was with everyone's assistance.

04-10-2017, 05:24 AM	#10
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Thank you Don, that's what I figured but was unsure. The spring being in contact with receiver is not right.

06-03-2017, 07:29 PM	#11
deltafox User Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Porto / Portugal Posts: 13 Thanks: 20 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Guys, My 1918 DWM Hold Open broke today. After only 5 shots the toggle opened as usual, put some rounds on the magazine but it never went to the front again. Latter a friend dismounted the pistol and said that the Hold Open is broken... Is this a common problem? He said that the HO has a blue color, like burned by heat, maybe because no oil in that part. I use Geco 124 gr ammo, are they too strong and could they contribute to the problem? Thanks

06-03-2017, 09:10 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Well, the pistol is 100 years old... The part is hardened which may relate to it's color. Sometimes hardened parts chip when they are brittle. If the GECO is NATO power (made for machine guns) it could well be doing damage. If standard velocity, could relate to the gun's cycling balance and the state of the recoil spring. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-05-2017, 12:02 PM	#14
deltafox User Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Porto / Portugal Posts: 13 Thanks: 20 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I´ll receive the pistol tomorrow and then I'll put some photos. Thanks

06-05-2017, 05:37 PM	#15
Sky Zero User Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Michigan Posts: 308 Thanks: 134 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Don, can you replace just the spring?

06-05-2017, 10:12 PM	#16
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Yes. Best to get an original, the after market springs require a bit fitting- sometimes more than a bid. Lugerdoc can fix you up. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-06-2017, 07:59 AM	#17
unitedcs User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Land O Lakes, Florida Posts: 90 Thanks: 8 Thanked 30 Times in 15 Posts	Hold open Sky I had the same problem. Lugerdoc is the way to go. He sent me a hold open assembly and after a little fitting was good as new. The only issue I had fitting it was the spring was coming into contact with the cannon but with a little adjustment it worked fine. Good luck. Rick

06-06-2017, 09:51 AM	#18
mccaslyn User Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts	Had a similar problem. The soloution was a new ho spring. Got it from numrich went right in and works perfect