Japanese shotgun?????

wlyon · 04-24-2017, 08:16 PM

A few days ago a man donated two firearms to our local American Legion Post.
The first one is a typical 6.5 Type 38 Japanese rifle. It still has the dust cover over the bolt which is not seen frequently.
However the second one is rather strange. A outside hammer double barrel shotgun with a Type 30 Japanese bayonet. The proofs are all Belgium blackpowder. I thought at first just a backyard gunsmith put together. However it has a couple features to make one wonder. There is a number on the stock. To me numbers such as this have some implication of military use. There is Japanese writing ,in white paint, on the stock and the bayonet. Both have been there a long time. Has anyone seen anything like this??? Help

Edward Tinker · 04-24-2017, 08:54 PM

I would guess last ditch weapon.

But translation on the stock would be good.

Don?

sheepherder · 04-24-2017, 10:16 PM

Bill, I posted Teri's Nambu Site new URL a few days ago. Take more pics and send her an email. I emailed her a few years back and she replied with some valuable information about Japanese parts suppliers. She could likely give you some insight as to the shotgun's history.

Ah! It was still in my cache!

http://www.nambuworld.com/

wlyon · 04-25-2017, 11:00 AM

Btt

DonVoigt · 04-25-2017, 02:09 PM

Bill,
that is a pretty typical bayonet attachment found on many examples of Japanese double shotguns.
I have not kept up with them, but they are fairly frequently found among bringback souvenirs.

sheepherder · 04-25-2017, 04:26 PM

Bill, those external hammers look familiar to me - is there a maker stamped/engraved under the handguard???

I have to wonder if that has Damascus barrels...

Pics of any proofs or markings would of course be helpful...

wlyon · 04-25-2017, 05:57 PM

All the proofs are Belgium Black powder . No manufacturer anywhere. A few inspector initials only. Barrels are not Damascus. Guns of this vintage frequently have Belgium proofs. They had a well known proof house. Bill

wlyon · 04-25-2017, 07:45 PM

Thanks to Sheepherder (Rich) who got in touch with a Japanese expert ( I sent Rich a few pictures) who stated " It is a typical last ditch militarized shot gun made up as they attempted to gather up weapons and prepare for the expected US invasion. Probably used for guard duty to free up a rifle for front line duty." Also she said the writing is numbers. She also stated she did not have one but had seen a couple.
So Don Voight is right again. Thanks. Good one Ed. I have looked at hundreds of Japanese weapons but had never seen a double barrel with a bayonet. Thanks guy's for your efforts. Bill

DonVoigt · 04-25-2017, 07:53 PM

Thanks Bill, if you had spent as much time on the Japanese forum on gunboards as I have in the last 15 years, you would have seen one or twelve. I expect there is a picture of one in at least one book, but I don't remember which one.

The "mounts" show up on ebay from time to time also.

sheepherder · 04-26-2017, 12:36 PM

Bill, Teri emailed me some additional comments on your shotgun -

The writing on the stock appears to be rack or inventory numbers.
The top part says "se 300" (se is a Japanese letter, possibly a series
marker or an abbreviation for a unit name).
Below it says "ho 1171" (again, ho is a Japanese letter, possibly a series
marker or an abbreviation for a unit name).
Se was also used as an inspection mark by Kokura Arsenal.
On the butt, the markings that are stamped in appear to be yo 5982. (again,
yo is a Japanese letter, possibly a series marker or an abbreviation for a
unit name. This katakana symbol looks like a backwards E).
Yo was also used as an inspection mark by Yokosuka Naval Arsenal.

sheepherder · 04-30-2017, 11:50 AM

Bill, Teri, and I have been exchanging emails on this shotgun. There is also a US collector interested in details of it. There seems to be a Japanese WWII web site called 'Banzai'.

I don't know why, but I had not really noticed that this was a double-barrel shotgun. That makes the bayonet attachment much more complicated than I had realized.

I'm somewhat confused/amused that any nation expecting imminent invasion would bother fixing bayonets to any weapon.

Although I inagine the shotgun blast would make it easier to withdraw the bayonet...

rolandtg · 04-30-2017, 02:05 PM

Fascinating!
The Japanese really did love to put bayonets on everything!
It's interesting that someone actually bothered to bring it back.
Probably picked up during the occupation.
Probably not many left in that condition any more.

04-24-2017, 08:16 PM	#1
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	Japanese shotgun????? A few days ago a man donated two firearms to our local American Legion Post. The first one is a typical 6.5 Type 38 Japanese rifle. It still has the dust cover over the bolt which is not seen frequently. However the second one is rather strange. A outside hammer double barrel shotgun with a Type 30 Japanese bayonet. The proofs are all Belgium blackpowder. I thought at first just a backyard gunsmith put together. However it has a couple features to make one wonder. There is a number on the stock. To me numbers such as this have some implication of military use. There is Japanese writing ,in white paint, on the stock and the bayonet. Both have been there a long time. Has anyone seen anything like this??? Help Attached Thumbnails __________________ Bill Lyon

04-24-2017, 10:16 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Bill, I posted Teri's Nambu Site new URL a few days ago. Take more pics and send her an email. I emailed her a few years back and she replied with some valuable information about Japanese parts suppliers. She could likely give you some insight as to the shotgun's history. Ah! It was still in my cache! http://www.nambuworld.com/ __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-25-2017, 11:00 AM	#4
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	Btt __________________ Bill Lyon

04-25-2017, 02:09 PM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,354 Times in 2,041 Posts	Bill, that is a pretty typical bayonet attachment found on many examples of Japanese double shotguns. I have not kept up with them, but they are fairly frequently found among bringback souvenirs. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-25-2017, 04:26 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Bill, those external hammers look familiar to me - is there a maker stamped/engraved under the handguard??? I have to wonder if that has Damascus barrels... Pics of any proofs or markings would of course be helpful... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-24-2017, 08:54 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	I would guess last ditch weapon. But translation on the stock would be good. Don?

04-25-2017, 05:57 PM	#7
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	All the proofs are Belgium Black powder . No manufacturer anywhere. A few inspector initials only. Barrels are not Damascus. Guns of this vintage frequently have Belgium proofs. They had a well known proof house. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-25-2017, 07:45 PM	#8
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	Thanks to Sheepherder (Rich) who got in touch with a Japanese expert ( I sent Rich a few pictures) who stated " It is a typical last ditch militarized shot gun made up as they attempted to gather up weapons and prepare for the expected US invasion. Probably used for guard duty to free up a rifle for front line duty." Also she said the writing is numbers. She also stated she did not have one but had seen a couple. So Don Voight is right again. Thanks. Good one Ed. I have looked at hundreds of Japanese weapons but had never seen a double barrel with a bayonet. Thanks guy's for your efforts. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-25-2017, 07:53 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,354 Times in 2,041 Posts	Thanks Bill, if you had spent as much time on the Japanese forum on gunboards as I have in the last 15 years, you would have seen one or twelve. I expect there is a picture of one in at least one book, but I don't remember which one. The "mounts" show up on ebay from time to time also. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

04-26-2017, 12:36 PM	#10
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Bill, Teri emailed me some additional comments on your shotgun - The writing on the stock appears to be rack or inventory numbers. The top part says "se 300" (se is a Japanese letter, possibly a series marker or an abbreviation for a unit name). Below it says "ho 1171" (again, ho is a Japanese letter, possibly a series marker or an abbreviation for a unit name). Se was also used as an inspection mark by Kokura Arsenal. On the butt, the markings that are stamped in appear to be yo 5982. (again, yo is a Japanese letter, possibly a series marker or an abbreviation for a unit name. This katakana symbol looks like a backwards E). Yo was also used as an inspection mark by Yokosuka Naval Arsenal. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-30-2017, 11:50 AM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Bill, Teri, and I have been exchanging emails on this shotgun. There is also a US collector interested in details of it. There seems to be a Japanese WWII web site called 'Banzai'. I don't know why, but I had not really noticed that this was a double-barrel shotgun. That makes the bayonet attachment much more complicated than I had realized. I'm somewhat confused/amused that any nation expecting imminent invasion would bother fixing bayonets to any weapon. Although I inagine the shotgun blast would make it easier to withdraw the bayonet... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

04-30-2017, 02:05 PM	#12
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 387 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	Fascinating! The Japanese really did love to put bayonets on everything! It's interesting that someone actually bothered to bring it back. Probably picked up during the occupation. Probably not many left in that condition any more.