Soon to be owner of a 1916 DWM Luger P08 "shooter"

[Big Fre]

Hi all, my name is Frederik, I live in Belgium, 30 years old,

Been shooting for almost 2 years now, and allready have a few nice guns, 2 of them are war-time rifles:
Schmidt Rubin K31 of 1944
Mosin Nagant 91/30 of 1930

Now this past week I passed by a local gun shop who had 3 Lugers for sale, being that I really like the war time guns, and the Luger had interested me for many years, the look and the way it works, I decided to ask about the prices, because I'm a bit on a budget for the moment, I thought they would not be in my prive range, and the 2 in good condition, a 1920 and 1939 where 1250€, which was a bit high for me, but then the dealer offered me this 1916 DWM P08 Luger, he told me it was dug up after WW2, he didn't know when, but it had a lot of wear on the metal, pitted all over from rusting in the ground, it had been made in perfect working order with I presume from what I have read here repro grips and probably most of the internals have been replaced, externals are matching, just the mag had a totally different number,

I thought it over, and found that I would be perfectly capable of enjoying this gun as a nice shooter, certainely for the price, so I made the deal, now sadly I have to wait for the paperwork, unfortuneley it takes around 3 months here in Belgium before I will have my licence for the gun, wish I allready had it in possesion,

some photos posted, hope they work, sorry for the lesser quality, taken with my phone in the vault of the gunshop, bad lighting

[Eugen]

Big Fre, welcome to the forum. Congrats on our Luger purchase. I am a fairly new owner as well. You will benefit immensely if you take the time to peruse the FAQ section. It is a bit of misnomer, as it is a basic info library on Lugers. Keep us posted on your first range trip.

[Big Fre]

Thanks Eugen,

I have actually browsed some of the threads allready, and found a few things about what proof I have and stuff like that, I was dumbfounded by how much info there was to find,

I'm certainly looking forward to shooting my baby ��,

And maybe in time when I've saved up some more, I'll go back to the store and buy one of the 2 Lugers in good condition more as a collectors piece ��

[DavidJayUden]

From what I can see the gun doesn't look bad at all. We occasionally see them in worse condition simply due to a lack of care and poor storage.
We look forward to seeing more photos once the new baby comes home.
Just for our information, tell us the legal, time and costs of owning a Luger in Belgium.
Thanks, and enjoy!
dju

[Edward Tinker]

welcome to the forum - I lived in the Netherlands for 7 years, down by Maastricht, so Belgium was very close. Loved the antique market on Sundays in Tongrene


Ed

[DonVoigt]

Welcome!
Enjoy your shooter when you get your hands on it!
Don't forget to come back and tell us how it goes!

[mrerick]

Hi Frederik and welcome to the forum.

It looks like the magazine may have a dent in it along the lower area in your last picture. If this is so, don't attempt to fix it yourself. We have a member here that can recondition it for you using the proper tools. It would involve shipment to the US.

It's always better to use a more modern magazine for actual shooting, as the wood based ones are prone to breakage. Consider a fxo / East German Thalmann magazine (milled welded steel construction) or a new one.

Use only standard power ammunition. No +P or military surplus NATO power stuff. Winchester white box or something similar works well. Remmington generally doesn't.

Marc

[Big Fre]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

From what I can see the gun doesn't look bad at all. We occasionally see them in worse condition simply due to a lack of care and poor storage.
We look forward to seeing more photos once the new baby comes home.
Just for our information, tell us the legal, time and costs of owning a Luger in Belgium.
Thanks, and enjoy!
dju

Thanks, It's not all that bad indeed, that's why it didn't bother me in the first place,

Hope that it comes home soon, hehe

Legal time and cost to own a Luger in Belgium, there's 2 ways,

First is how I did it, to get a licence called sport/ recreational shooter, which involves being member of a shooting club shooting federation 200€ a year, then you get a starter licence for 6 months to a year, in that time you may only shoot weapons in the club and can't own any of yourself yet, in that time we need to do a written theoretical exam about the laws for shooting and owning a firearm in Belgium, and then a practical exam for each category, A=revolver, B=pistol, C= long rifle non threaded barrel, D= long rifle threaded barrel, exam cost around 20€, after passing we get our full licence, but that license only allows us to own a pistol in .22 and threaded barrel rifles in all calibers,

So for a Luger we need another license, a pistol license carried out by the gouvernement, for this license we need to send a copy of the sport/recreantional shooter license and an official document from city hall that states we have done no criminal facts in our lifetime, and for that pistol license I have to pay 100,67€ and it takes normally max 3. months, but can sometimes take longer if they "forget"

2nd way is to not have a sporter/recreational license, only a pistol license, we still need to be a member of a shooting club, just not a federation, 150€ a year in stead of 200€, so then we have to do a theoretical and practical exam every time we want a license, and to get that license we need a certificate from our doctor telling we are physically and mentally fit to shoot and own a gun, and also the certificate from city hall with no criminal records, so you save 50€ a year on the federation, but then you pay 20€ per exam per gun, and like 20€ for the doctor per gun, and takes more time to make an appointment at the doctors office and do the exam which is only on certain dates, so money wise it's not really a good deal, only if you don't want more than 1 or 2 guns, time wise better of in the first way, ok, you wait 6 months for the sport shooter license but after that it will go a lot smoother,

Few, a long text to write, but Belgium is one of the harder places to get a gun, not that I mind the wait, because it helps to make sure a weapon can't fall into the wrong hands,

So to sum it up,

In my case it costs me:
-200€ a year for club and federation
-1 time cost of 20€ exam and 20€ doctor for every gun I own, so the more guns I own the cheaper it is
-1 time cost of 100,67€ for every time you order permits at the weapons office of the gouvernor, but that 100,67€ is not persay for 1 weapon, if I would ask permits for 2 or 3 or 10 weapons of more it still costs me 100,67€, so the more permits in one time , the cheaper it is

Hope it's a bit understandable to read, because it's quite a difficult process here, but it's not too bad, just the wait is a shame, hehe

[Big Fre]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

welcome to the forum - I lived in the Netherlands for 7 years, down by Maastricht, so Belgium was very close. Loved the antique market on Sundays in Tongrene


Ed

Hey Ed, thanks for the welcome, yeah, Maastricht is at the eastern side of the Netherlands near Germany, I live more to the West, but I've been in Maastricht one time on vacation in Valkenburg, very nice city, really close to the Belgian border indeed, the Netherlands is not my cup of tea for owning guns, they have a rule that you can own a max of only 5 guns total, that's no fun, hahaha

[Big Fre]

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hi Frederik and welcome to the forum.

It looks like the magazine may have a dent in it along the lower area in your last picture. If this is so, don't attempt to fix it yourself. We have a member here that can recondition it for you using the proper tools. It would involve shipment to the US.

It's always better to use a more modern magazine for actual shooting, as the wood based ones are prone to breakage. Consider a fxo / East German Thalmann magazine (milled welded steel construction) or a new one.

Use only standard power ammunition. No +P or military surplus NATO power stuff. Winchester white box or something similar works well. Remmington generally doesn't.

Marc

Hey Marc, thanks for the welcome,

Yes, could be it has a dent, didn't notice it while I was checking it out, can't really take a look at it as I have to wait for probably 3 months until I get my license for it,

Will give it a look to find a magazine, but don't really know if they are easy te find here,

When you say only standard power ammo, what grains do you mean, necause Winchester is not widely available here, we have Magtech, Geco, Sellier & Bellot and Fiochi, all vary from 115gr to 124gr, or is this to high allready? Else I will have to go search for lower grains ammo, lowest to finf commonly here is 115gr,

Thanks for the tips! They are much apreciated

[Big Fre]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Welcome!
Enjoy your shooter when you get your hands on it!
Don't forget to come back and tell us how it goes!

Thanks,

Will certainly enjoy it, looking forward to shooting it

[rhuff]

Welcome to the forum and Luger ownership!! Be careful, as they are most addicting and before you know it, they multiply!! All of us on this forum have said addiction.

Most all of us recommend using standard velocity 9mm ammo in either 115gr or 124gr FMJRN bullets. S&B makes good ammo, and I have no problems with Fiocchi either. You may have to do a trial and test to find what YOUR Luger likes the best......some Lugers can be ammo sensitive.

See if you can locate factory new Mec-Gar mags, as they are the best of the aftermarket mags and are reasonably priced....at least they are here in the USA.

Lugers like to be clean and well lubed with good springs. Once you get yours, and give it a go at the range, you may have a question or two about it. There is a lot of Luger knowledge here on this forum......and nice folks also, willing to help you. The waiting begins!!

[Curly1]

Welcome to the forum.

[RShaw]

Hi Frederick,
My family and I lived in Waterloo and in Overijse for 4 years before moving here to the Netherlands.. I know what you mean re. waiting times for a handgun license, From what you have written here, our Dutch laws are similar. (If you like, see my post "Ownership of Firearms in the Netherlands" in "General Discussions."

Your gun looks like a great shooter.... I hope the bore is not heavily pitted....

I have also recently acquired my first Luger mainly to shoot it, but I have elected NOT to take it to the range (it's a very nice piece...) so now I'm looking for a shooter. My gunsmith friend, from whom I bought it (a 1917 DWM) and also a P38 ac43, advised me the following ammo for both the Luger and the Walther:

"Subsonic Luger 9 mm- 140 grain full metal jacket" costs about EUR 300 / 1000 rounds. He maintains that it is slower than the 115 gr, and assured me that the load is OK.
There's also a 154 gr version- this runs EUR 18 / 50 rounds. I'm going to check that with two other gunsmiths I have gotten to know, while I look around for a good shooter.

Let us know what happens??
You have a nice day...

[DavidJayUden]

Be cautious on shooting subsonic. I admit I have no experience, but the addl. weight out the bore will also mean additional force rearward on the inherently weak toggle system. I'd stay with standard 115 grain FMJ, Sellar and Belloit, Winchester, etc.
Also don't worry about the bore of your new gun. They seem to shoot pretty well thru "sewer pipe".
dju

[RShaw]

Thanks David,
I'll check for the 115 gr first
One good thing about the wait we have here in Netherlands and Belgium- we have plenty of time to explore the various recommendations offered on this forum, and do our homework properly. I'm forced to learn some patience as well.

[Big Fre]

@rhuff: thanks for the advise, the 115gr type ammo is wildley available in multiple brands, so I can search for what is the best for my Luger, prices don't vary too much, I will certainly come to the aid of fellow Luger-owners here on the board for questions if and when they come up,

@Curly1 thanks for the welcome

@Rshaw thanks for the welcome, and thanks for the tips, think I'll start off with the lower grain ammo first, 115gr and 124gr, netherlands and Belgium I believe they are kind of similar, but in the Netherlands you may only own 5 guns at a time right? I do know that for sales of weapons and such there is a law that the BeNeLux as they call it BelgiumNetherlandsLuxembourg can interchange firearms with just one paper, just because of the similarities in gun-owner-laws, which is a nice feature,

@DavidJayUden thanks for the advice, think I'll stick to that, don't want to overdo my old Luger, would be a great shame

[Eugen]

Originally Posted by RShaw

My gunsmith friend, from whom I bought it (a 1917 DWM) and also a P38 ac43, advised me the following ammo for both the Luger and the Walther:

"Subsonic Luger 9 mm- 140 grain full metal jacket" costs about EUR 300 / 1000 rounds. He maintains that it is slower than the 115 gr, and assured me that the load is OK.
There's also a 154 gr version- this runs EUR 18 / 50 rounds. I'm going to check that with two other gunsmiths I have gotten to know, while I look around for a good shooter.
.

I am no gunsmith and I certainly am no Luger expert, but shooting 140gn or 154gn sure seems counterintuitive to me. While a heavier grn will certainly be slower, how will that be a benefit? I would think a heavier grn would definitely place more stress on the toggle system. Try 115grn as we are all suggesting. If 115 grn does not cycle well for some reason, I would suggest you focus on finding out why and fixing the problem. I would not experiment with heavier weights.

But, then like I said I am no expert.

[Big Fre]

Originally Posted by Eugen

I am no gunsmith and I certainly am no Luger expert, but shooting 140gn or 154gn sure seems counterintuitive to me. While a heavier grn will certainly be slower, how will that be a benefit? I would think a heavier grn would definitely place more stress on the toggle system. Try 115grn as we are all suggesting. If 115 grn does not cycle well for some reason, I would suggest you focus on finding out why and fixing the problem. I would not experiment with heavier weights.

But, then like I said I am no expert.

Like I said, I have no intention of trying higher grains ammo, going to try the normal 115gr fmj from different brands to see what works best, maybe try some 124gr, we'll see once we get there, hehe

[Big Fre]

Hi guys, so my gun license for me P08 came in tuesday, but the store was closed then, so I went to get it on wednesday, and go shoot it right after, first photo is just the gun when I took it out for the first time

So in the club shot about 150 bullets through it, shoots pretty high, I aimed under the black center circle (because I couldn't see my iron sights line up otherwise) 2nd photo are the first 50 shots I took at 10-12meter = about 11-13 yards, as you can see by aiming just under the black center circle I shot most nicely in the black, pretty nice for a 100 year old gun that's been dug up, had a few run-aways but I think that was of fatigue by shooting one handed, not used to that,

3rd photo I shot about half a box (25 bullets) at 18-20m = about 20-22 yards, and the shots where way high to the right, was predictable as they where also a bit high at 10-12m, last 25 was back at 10-12m

Must say I love shooting the P08, very stable and not really that heavy, very smooth trigger, just a few times the toggle didn't cycle the bullet correctly, and bullet got stuck croocked, but nothing serious, noticed the mag had the tendencey to make the bullets stick a little, so I think that's the problem, as a member here replied he thought he saw a little dent in the mag, I believe he is right and I'm going to try and find another mag, original or repro so this original mag doesn't parrish,

As I told one of the clubs instructors I have a P08 he told me to speak to an old member of the club about the dangers of shooting modern day bullets, that the higher charge in them is dangerous for breaking the gun, so I asked his oppinions, and he told me he blew out the toggle, just plain blasted out of his gun almost hitting him in the face, so he advised me to buy ammo with less charge or refill cases myself, so I am looking at buying bullets with a bit heavier head which need lees powder, the old man told me to buy ammo with a max velocity of 320m/s, about 1050ft/s, I researched the most availlable brands and found out that all 124gr bullets have a too high velocity, thinking of buying Geco 139gr bullets, they have a velocity of 310m/s and the head's wheight isn't too extreme, most other brands go from 124gr to 147gr, any thoughts on it, don't want to risk blowing up the toggle system,

Sorry for the long text, but I'm really happy about my buy