Question about 1911 Luger

quietman123 · 07-15-2015, 11:22 AM

Good day to all. I recently purchased a 1911 Luger in remarkable condition, however, one issue. On my other Lugers, when magazine is inserted, I can pull the toggle joint to the rear and it locks in place. This Luger does not. Is there a major problem here? Thanks in advance for any insight.
Dan

DonVoigt · 07-15-2015, 11:31 AM

Could be a problem, maybe not.

Up till during 1913 military Lugers were made without the hold open.

They were added to most earlier pistols, and from mid 1913 or so installed in all.

If yours doesn't hold open, it maybe does not have one, or if cut for the hold open- it is missing or broken.

hope this helps.

If you don't like it, pass it along to me, I've been looking for one without the feature as an example!

quietman123 · 07-15-2015, 11:41 AM

Thanks Don. I was hoping this would be the answer. This pistol is the nicest I have. Really near perfect. Is regimentally marked to a Bavarian Ambulance Corp Railway Unit. Did not say that exactly right but you get the gist. Rather rare I understand.

DavidJayUden · 07-15-2015, 12:04 PM

Can you remove the upper and photo down on the lower on the right side of the mag well from the top? That will help us confirm or deny the above opinion.
And congratulations on your acquisition. I like's 'em all but early Lugers rock...
dju

mrerick · 07-15-2015, 12:41 PM

The hold open is a small lever that is pushed up against the receiver by the magazine along the top of the frame (inside). It has a small spring.

In an early gun without the conversion, you won't see anything there. Just the top of the frame. The modification milled out a channel for the hold open lever.

George Anderson · 07-15-2015, 01:06 PM

Bavarian and Wuerttemberger P08s were not retrofitted with hold-opens. I suspect that the subject 1911 is not Railway associated but rather train unit as in wagon train.

quietman123 · 07-15-2015, 02:59 PM

I found someone online who has the pistol within several number of mine in the regimental numbering. Photos included. Seems rude to talk about the pistol but not show it. Rather nice straw. Thanks for the continued discussion

George Anderson · 07-15-2015, 04:29 PM

How about showing us a photo of the front of the frame with serial number?

quietman123 · 07-15-2015, 05:00 PM

You bet...

George Anderson · 07-15-2015, 05:57 PM

Thank you.

DonVoigt · 07-15-2015, 10:11 PM

Very nice; now take it apart and see if the hold open is there or not!

Norme · 07-15-2015, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Very nice; now take it apart and see if the hold open is there or not!

No need to take it apart, the first photo in post #7 shows that this gun has not been retro-fitted with a hold-open.
Regards, Norm

DonVoigt · 07-15-2015, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

No need to take it apart, the first photo in post #7 shows that this gun has not been retro-fitted with a hold-open.
Regards, Norm

At least not by Erfurt.

LU1900 · 07-16-2015, 04:53 AM

Very nice , does the mag match to the gun ?
Special on serie "e"1911

Ron Wood · 07-16-2015, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

At least not by Erfurt.

All hold open retrofit on both DWM and Erfurt Lugers was done by Erfurt. The only other option would be a private gunsmith. As Norm stated, appears clear that this gun does not have a hold open.

By the way Dan, that is a beautiful Luger. Are the photos of your gun or the one you found on line?

Sergio Natali · 07-16-2015, 09:28 AM

Dan

I think you've got a pretty nice 1911 DWM with interesting markings on the front strap.
While it's absolutely normal that your gun hasn't got the stock lug (introduced only in 1913), the hold open device was installed on the 1914 models and following, but many older lugers were sent to the Erfurt Arsenal to have it installed.

Sergio

sheepherder · 07-16-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

No need to take it apart, the first photo in post #7 shows that this gun has not been retro-fitted with a hold-open.
Regards, Norm

Norm, you know that without an explanation, all us dummies will have to open up our 'panic room', run to the safe, haul out the big canvas bag we pile all our Lugers in, search for one of that approximate vintage, and try to see where the hold-open shows from the outside...

I have mine out and don't see anything on the right outside to indicate a hold-open, although it does indeed have one...

John Sabato · 07-16-2015, 09:37 AM

On guns modified for a holdopen post manufacture, you should find a small pin has been installed in the right frame rail. This pin is visible on the outside of the gun. Sorry I don't have a photo handy to show you.

Norme · 07-16-2015, 09:49 AM

Here's a photo of a 1912 Erfurt that was retro-fitted with a hold open. As Ron has said, all these conversions were done by Erfurt so DWM Lugers have the same small inspection mark. The end of the pin on retro fitted guns was always left "in the white", if it's blued over then the gun has been refinished.
Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 07-16-2015, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Here's a photo of a 1912 Erfurt that was retro-fitted with a hold open. As Ron has said, all these conversions were done by Erfurt so DWM Lugers have the same small inspection mark. The end of the pin on retro fitted guns was always left "in the white", if it's blued over then the gun has been refinished.
Regards, Norm

That's the pin up and to the left of the trigger pin, bisecting the edge of the frame rail??? OK, I got it now!

Thanks for the pic! I do seem to recall having this discussion once before, but CRS is causing me all kinds of problems...

07-15-2015, 11:22 AM	#1
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Question about 1911 Luger Good day to all. I recently purchased a 1911 Luger in remarkable condition, however, one issue. On my other Lugers, when magazine is inserted, I can pull the toggle joint to the rear and it locks in place. This Luger does not. Is there a major problem here? Thanks in advance for any insight. Dan

07-15-2015, 12:41 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	The hold open is a small lever that is pushed up against the receiver by the magazine along the top of the frame (inside). It has a small spring. In an early gun without the conversion, you won't see anything there. Just the top of the frame. The modification milled out a channel for the hold open lever. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-15-2015, 05:00 PM	#9
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	You bet... Attached Thumbnails

07-16-2015, 04:53 AM	#14
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 912 Thanks: 46 Thanked 472 Times in 199 Posts	Very nice , does the mag match to the gun ? Special on serie "e"1911 __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

07-16-2015, 09:28 AM	#16
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Dan I think you've got a pretty nice 1911 DWM with interesting markings on the front strap. While it's absolutely normal that your gun hasn't got the stock lug (introduced only in 1913), the hold open device was installed on the 1914 models and following, but many older lugers were sent to the Erfurt Arsenal to have it installed. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-15-2015, 11:31 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Could be a problem, maybe not. Up till during 1913 military Lugers were made without the hold open. They were added to most earlier pistols, and from mid 1913 or so installed in all. If yours doesn't hold open, it maybe does not have one, or if cut for the hold open- it is missing or broken. hope this helps. If you don't like it, pass it along to me, I've been looking for one without the feature as an example!

07-15-2015, 11:41 AM	#3
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks Don. I was hoping this would be the answer. This pistol is the nicest I have. Really near perfect. Is regimentally marked to a Bavarian Ambulance Corp Railway Unit. Did not say that exactly right but you get the gist. Rather rare I understand.

07-15-2015, 12:04 PM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Can you remove the upper and photo down on the lower on the right side of the mag well from the top? That will help us confirm or deny the above opinion. And congratulations on your acquisition. I like's 'em all but early Lugers rock... dju

07-15-2015, 01:06 PM	#6
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Bavarian and Wuerttemberger P08s were not retrofitted with hold-opens. I suspect that the subject 1911 is not Railway associated but rather train unit as in wagon train.

07-15-2015, 02:59 PM	#7
quietman123 User Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39 Thanks: 14 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I found someone online who has the pistol within several number of mine in the regimental numbering. Photos included. Seems rude to talk about the pistol but not show it. Rather nice straw. Thanks for the continued discussion Attached Thumbnails

07-15-2015, 04:29 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	How about showing us a photo of the front of the frame with serial number?

07-15-2015, 05:57 PM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Thank you.

07-15-2015, 10:11 PM	#11
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Very nice; now take it apart and see if the hold open is there or not!

07-16-2015, 09:37 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	On guns modified for a holdopen post manufacture, you should find a small pin has been installed in the right frame rail. This pin is visible on the outside of the gun. Sorry I don't have a photo handy to show you. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-16-2015, 09:49 AM	#19
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Here's a photo of a 1912 Erfurt that was retro-fitted with a hold open. As Ron has said, all these conversions were done by Erfurt so DWM Lugers have the same small inspection mark. The end of the pin on retro fitted guns was always left "in the white", if it's blued over then the gun has been refinished. Regards, Norm Attached Thumbnails