1914 DWM

sej-gun · 12-29-2013, 10:23 AM

I came across this nice P.08 DWM 1914 sn: 6091a. Böhler barrel (Bö.32).

Reg. Jes

Edward Tinker · 12-29-2013, 03:13 PM

It is much better to start a new thread, then tack on your posting on an older thread...

alanint · 12-29-2013, 05:00 PM

Those halos just don't look right. It looks like the ol" blueing remover boost.

Maestro · 12-29-2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

Those halos just don't look right. It looks like the ol" blueing remover boost.

it does look a bit strange

JTD · 12-29-2013, 07:00 PM

I think they are ok, judging by the overall finish. They are just well pronounced halos to begin with, and highlighted by photography.

ithacaartist · 12-30-2013, 01:40 AM

As I said on the other thread for this gun, too pronounced, too even/regular, too well-defined. The edges of them should fade away more gradually, and they just look too darned big. If they can be made to appear more "normal" with different lighting, I might be happier with them. I know that flash can cause some weird effects when photographing surface finish...

sheepherder · 12-30-2013, 10:41 AM

I lost the other thread, but IIRC it had a reference/pic of a Bohler Bo30 barrel as well as a Bo32...I believe these indicate different steel alloys, but I don't have a reference that lists the composition of Bohler-named steels. But they would respond differently.

Alloys are interesting. If you make and name a certain alloy and copyright the name, then anyone who markets their steel and uses your name has to pay you a royalty. CPM154, 530V, and BG-42 are all good examples (all used in knife blades). In England, Reynolds 531 is a common structural alloy for race cars. You can make the steel/alloy and even sell it, but not use another mfg's brandname. I actually buy my steel, aluminum, copper, and Delrin [there's another brandname!] from a Krupp subsidiary, and they are careful not to infringe on other makers brandnames...

...But I digress...

Norme · 12-30-2013, 10:56 AM

The Böhler number does not indicate a different alloy, it's the hardness number on the Böhler Scale, a proprietary system similar to the more familiar Rockwell Scale.
Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 12-30-2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

The Böhler number does not indicate a different alloy, it's the hardness number on the Böhler Scale, a proprietary system similar to the more familiar Rockwell Scale.
Regards, Norm

Thanks for the correction Norm!

I still think that the physical appearance would be different between the two, as regards to bluing and aging.

Geo99 · 01-01-2014, 02:57 AM

Böhler 32 is a very hard steel. How does the bore look?

These halos look funny to me also, but for some different reason -

Most people may not be aware of this, but there should be bluing down in the barrel stamping grooves. From the picture, it looks like the blue has been washed out, which is not normal for an original gun. You will probably need a loupe to see it.

I have several guns where the halos have sharp edges, but these look way too obvious and round. And they are around EVERY number on the barrel, which is not normally what I have observed on other guns.

I fear I have given away too much information already.

sheepherder · 01-01-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo99

I fear I have given away too much information already.

Perhaps a page or two in the upcoming 'Waffenfabrik Amerika: Handbuch für Mechaniker'...

sej-gun · 01-01-2014, 10:56 AM

Hello good forum friends first Happy New Year to you all!

And new photo without extra light, hope this is better.
I have no doubt there is bluing in the letters and numbers
The bore is, as rest of the gun, in fine condition.

Reg. Jes
(without 2/1 - 14)

DavidJayUden · 01-01-2014, 11:22 AM

Geo99:
"Most people may not be aware of this, but there should be bluing down in the barrel stamping grooves. From the picture, it looks like the blue has been washed out, which is not normal for an original gun. You will probably need a loupe to see it."

Are you referring to the bare metal in the right side of the "9"?
dju

sej-gun · 01-01-2014, 11:31 AM

Few more Photos with white Tush in the markings

CJS57 · 01-01-2014, 05:01 PM

I think he is saying there should be blue in and at the bottom of the little miniature "trench" made by the number punch.

The thing is it is near impossible to tell if halos are original or fake from internet pictures. Only a hands on exam will do.

George Anderson · 01-01-2014, 05:28 PM

This pistol looks to be 100% correct to me.

lugercollector · 01-01-2014, 05:56 PM

I agree

Geo99 · 01-01-2014, 11:46 PM

CJS57 & dju -
Yes I am saying if you compare the first picture (post #4) with the newer picture (post #12), the first one looks like there is no blue down in the "trenches" but the newer pic looks much better. After seeing the newer picture of the barrel numbers, I'm inclined to agree with the last 2 posts and say it looks OK to me too. But as you say, only a hands on examination will tell for certain.

It is interesting that the halos show up so well in the one picture, must have had the perfect angle to pick it up with the flash.

sej-gun · 01-02-2014, 02:11 AM

Geo99:
It is interesting that the halos show up so well in the one picture, must have had the perfect angle to pick it up with the flash.

All photos are taken without flash, but the photos in the first post was taken with an additional halogen lamp, so there is more light on these. Last Photos I had use "Makro" mode on the camera.
Hope that this gives the explanation for the different light conditions

CJS57
I think he is saying there should be blue in and at the bottom of the little miniature "trench" made by the number punch

Correkt!

Reg. Jes

sej-gun · 01-02-2014, 01:54 PM

Following the posts in this thread, I have a few questions
Are there only these 3 barrel stampings "Bö" "Bö.30" "Bö.32"?
Have you any idea about how many guns that have this stamping "Bö" Bö.30 "" Bö.32 ", out of the total production from DWM in 1913 and 1914?
Do you think that a gun with these stamping is a rarity and thus has a higher value than those who not have this stamping? (personally I see for example a regimental stamping as something really attractive)

I hope some of you will share your opinion about this barrel stamping

Reg. Jes

12-30-2013, 01:40 AM	#6
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,400 Thanks: 7,555 Thanked 2,643 Times in 1,393 Posts	As I said on the other thread for this gun, too pronounced, too even/regular, too well-defined. The edges of them should fade away more gradually, and they just look too darned big. If they can be made to appear more "normal" with different lighting, I might be happier with them. I know that flash can cause some weird effects when photographing surface finish... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

12-30-2013, 10:41 AM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	I lost the other thread, but IIRC it had a reference/pic of a Bohler Bo30 barrel as well as a Bo32...I believe these indicate different steel alloys, but I don't have a reference that lists the composition of Bohler-named steels. But they would respond differently. Alloys are interesting. If you make and name a certain alloy and copyright the name, then anyone who markets their steel and uses your name has to pay you a royalty. CPM154, 530V, and BG-42 are all good examples (all used in knife blades). In England, Reynolds 531 is a common structural alloy for race cars. You can make the steel/alloy and even sell it, but not use another mfg's brandname. I actually buy my steel, aluminum, copper, and Delrin [there's another brandname!] from a Krupp subsidiary, and they are careful not to infringe on other makers brandnames... ...But I digress... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

01-01-2014, 02:57 AM	#10
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	Böhler 32 is a very hard steel. How does the bore look? These halos look funny to me also, but for some different reason - Most people may not be aware of this, but there should be bluing down in the barrel stamping grooves. From the picture, it looks like the blue has been washed out, which is not normal for an original gun. You will probably need a loupe to see it. I have several guns where the halos have sharp edges, but these look way too obvious and round. And they are around EVERY number on the barrel, which is not normally what I have observed on other guns. I fear I have given away too much information already. __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

01-01-2014, 11:46 PM	#18
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 400 Thanks: 102 Thanked 127 Times in 75 Posts	CJS57 & dju - Yes I am saying if you compare the first picture (post #4) with the newer picture (post #12), the first one looks like there is no blue down in the "trenches" but the newer pic looks much better. After seeing the newer picture of the barrel numbers, I'm inclined to agree with the last 2 posts and say it looks OK to me too. But as you say, only a hands on examination will tell for certain. It is interesting that the halos show up so well in the one picture, must have had the perfect angle to pick it up with the flash. __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

12-29-2013, 03:13 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	It is much better to start a new thread, then tack on your posting on an older thread...

12-29-2013, 05:00 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Those halos just don't look right. It looks like the ol" blueing remover boost.

12-29-2013, 07:00 PM	#5
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 428 Thanks: 218 Thanked 410 Times in 151 Posts	I think they are ok, judging by the overall finish. They are just well pronounced halos to begin with, and highlighted by photography.

12-30-2013, 10:56 AM	#8
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	The Böhler number does not indicate a different alloy, it's the hardness number on the Böhler Scale, a proprietary system similar to the more familiar Rockwell Scale. Regards, Norm

01-01-2014, 11:22 AM	#13
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Geo99: "Most people may not be aware of this, but there should be bluing down in the barrel stamping grooves. From the picture, it looks like the blue has been washed out, which is not normal for an original gun. You will probably need a loupe to see it." Are you referring to the bare metal in the right side of the "9"? dju

01-01-2014, 05:01 PM	#15
CJS57 User Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 224 Thanks: 0 Thanked 81 Times in 41 Posts	I think he is saying there should be blue in and at the bottom of the little miniature "trench" made by the number punch. The thing is it is near impossible to tell if halos are original or fake from internet pictures. Only a hands on exam will do.

01-01-2014, 05:28 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	This pistol looks to be 100% correct to me.

01-01-2014, 05:56 PM	#17
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	I agree

01-02-2014, 02:11 AM	#19
sej-gun User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 99 Thanks: 26 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	Geo99: It is interesting that the halos show up so well in the one picture, must have had the perfect angle to pick it up with the flash. All photos are taken without flash, but the photos in the first post was taken with an additional halogen lamp, so there is more light on these. Last Photos I had use "Makro" mode on the camera. Hope that this gives the explanation for the different light conditions CJS57 I think he is saying there should be blue in and at the bottom of the little miniature "trench" made by the number punch Correkt! Reg. Jes

01-02-2014, 01:54 PM	#20
sej-gun User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 99 Thanks: 26 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	Following the posts in this thread, I have a few questions Are there only these 3 barrel stampings "Bö" "Bö.30" "Bö.32"? Have you any idea about how many guns that have this stamping "Bö" Bö.30 "" Bö.32 ", out of the total production from DWM in 1913 and 1914? Do you think that a gun with these stamping is a rarity and thus has a higher value than those who not have this stamping? (personally I see for example a regimental stamping as something really attractive) I hope some of you will share your opinion about this barrel stamping Reg. Jes