Replica Grip Suggestions (Ideally Black Widows)

envino · 05-22-2014, 07:58 AM

Hey guys,

I'm a new Luger owner and new to the forum here. I hope I'm posting this question in the right section of the forum.

I have a quick question: The Luger I bought (1938 S/42) came with original grips. I'd like to purchase a set of replica grips to use when I shoot the Luger.

Any suggestions as to where I can buy a decent (good materials, fit and finish) set of replica grips. I'd especially enjoy a set of Black Widows.

Thanks for your time,

Jeff

sheepherder · 05-22-2014, 08:40 AM

I have no experience with these people but they say they have Bakelite grips for the Luger...

http://www.historyarms.com/index.html

HIGHLY ACCURATE REPRODUCTION BAKELITE PISTOL GRIPS FOR THE LUGER P08 "BLACK WIDOW " .
IT IS MADE FROM CAST PHENOLIC RESIN - JUST LIKE ORIGINAL . IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM ORIGINAL.
100% ACCURATE IN EVERY DETAIL AND WITH THE DETAILS ON THE BACK. THEY BLACK IN COLOR .

Price $39.00 S&H in USA $6.00
International shipping is extra.

If you buy a pair, please post back here and tell us how they look, fit, and feel...

envino · 05-22-2014, 08:47 AM

sheepherder, thanks for the suggestion. It looks like the company (History Arms) has a reasonable refund policy as well.

John Sabato · 05-22-2014, 10:44 AM

If the grips look like the photo that Sheepherder posted, the price is reasonable... as long as they FIT.

Bill_in_VA · 05-22-2014, 11:04 AM

I hope I'm not out of line in making the offer, but I have a couple of pairs of wooden grips, both original shooter-grade and reproduction that would be more appropriate for a Luger with your markings than plastic "black widow" grips.

envino · 05-22-2014, 12:35 PM

Hey Bill, I'm willing to explore any options for a pair of shooting grips. Feel free to post/email me pics and prices for your grips.

Thanks,

Jeff

envino · 05-22-2014, 12:37 PM

Is the frame of my 1938 Mauser and the "Black Widow" Luger the same? In other words, If I were to purchase Black Widow grips, can I expect that they would fit my Mauser?

Thanks,

Jeff

Edward Tinker · 05-22-2014, 01:18 PM

Well, since there is no such thing as a black widow frame, the answer would be yes, both are Mauser frames

I do not believe the Mauser hump changed the way grips fit - that said, early DWM grips seem to fit lousy on mauser frames...

John Sabato · 05-22-2014, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

... early DWM grips seem to fit lousy on mauser frames...

That said, the reverse is also true...

There is some minor individuality in the frame grips from the different manufacturers... I experienced the same thing between Erfurt and Mauser grips. Hence the requirement for some fitting is necessary for most grip changes.

envino · 05-22-2014, 02:13 PM

John and Edward, I had always assumed that the frames on the Lugers, especially the ones made by the same manufacturer, would generally be the same.

Although, I just received a pair of black plastic grip panels (resembling Black Widow Grips) made by N.C. Ordinance yesterday and the fit was very poor. The edges of the grips, where they met the barrel extension and and the Magazine receiver area. Additionally, the angel of the grips were off slightly. So, I wasn't sure if maybe there were minor changes in the Luger frames that I wasn't aware of, or if these were poor replicas of Luger grips.

Thanks for the insight,

Jeff

Edward Tinker · 05-22-2014, 03:30 PM

Most replica grips are not made the best - its a fairly complicated design, compared say to 1911 grips, which even I can make

John Sabato · 05-22-2014, 03:33 PM

Please post photos of the N.C. Ordinance grips you purchased.

sheepherder · 05-22-2014, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by envino

Although, I just received a pair of black plastic grip panels (resembling Black Widow Grips) made by N.C. Ordinance yesterday and the fit was very poor.

NC Ordnance grips are known to be poor fitting/poor quality castings. Do a Search here for pics.

jussi16 · 05-23-2014, 04:19 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...item35acd7f3bd

I saw these on eBay. I am not involved with this sale.

envino · 05-23-2014, 08:34 AM

jussi,

Thanks for the ebay posting. I'll check those out as well.

Jeff

John Sabato · 05-23-2014, 09:16 AM

My Recommendation is to spend your money in the USA instead of the Czech Republic. It will be much easier to exchange your purchase if something is not right when they arrive if you source them from this ebay seller.

Here is his own caveat:

Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.
Last updated on May 09, 2014 01:47:06 PDT View all revisions
This is a pair of German WWII reproduction pistol grips for the P 08 LUGER pistol. They are made of a hard resin and just need the two screws to attach it the two pieces in place. It is only $6.50 to ship this item anywhere in the US and outside Europe, within the EU it is only $5.50 for postage.

PLEASE READ THIS >>>>>

The grips were made from a resin casting of an original set of grips. This does not mean that all grips from every Luger are 100% fully interchangeable and that any grips will fit on an Luger without some fitting. The weapons were each hand machined and not fully identical from one to another. Each weapon had to have each part hand fitted to each after it was made. A gunsmith had to take each part and assemble the weapon, grinding, filling away so that the parts fit. So the parts do no get mixed up when being vat blued. Yes that is what the numbers on the parts are for. The same had to be done with the grips. On top of it all different productions runs from then again different makers will produce further variations in the pistols. So in short universally fitting grips without maybe needing some adjustments are not that probable.

envino · 05-23-2014, 09:55 AM

First a bit of a paranoid disclaimer: All opinions expressed expressed about the N. C. Ordinance grips are my honest opinions based on my personal experiences. I am not a fire arms professional. I am just someone who enjoys guns.

Here's a few thoughts about the N.C. Ordinance "Black Widow" Luger grips:

First problem: the grips are actually more of a dark purple color, rather than black.

The poorest fit of these grips are on the magazine release side of the gun, where there is a considerable gap between the grip and the barrel extension.

For some reason, the grips are rounded at the corners at the bottom of the grip, while the angles on the Luger's frame at the bottom of the handle are 90 degrees.

Finally, the plastic feels a bit flimsy, as though If I squeezed too hard they would break.

Even with the above problems, I'm keeping these grips to use for shooting, until I find a decent pair of replica grips to replace them with.

Thanks,

Jeff

hayhugh · 05-23-2014, 10:15 AM

I can attest to the above ebay ad placed by "vit-zemanek" as to the fit and looks as I did place photos of these grips on both a Swiss Bern and an Erfurt Artillery. Easy fit with only a small of filing on the inside lower part of the grips.

sheepherder · 05-23-2014, 01:34 PM

Here's the thread with pics of NC Ordnance grips...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32155

In the case of mine, the grips won't lie flat...They're warped...And they were cast from a set of very worn grips...

envino · 05-23-2014, 05:05 PM

I ended up going with the Czech ebay seller: vit-zemanek, who's grips jussi posted the link to

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...item35acd7f3bd

I read the thread sheepherder posted http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32155 regarding the N.C. Ordinance grips. Among these postings, vit-zemanek grips were reviewed as being exceptional.

I'll keep you guys up to date with my impressions of vit's "black widow" grips once I receive them.

Thanks,

Jeff

05-22-2014, 07:58 AM	#1
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Replica Grip Suggestions (Ideally Black Widows) Hey guys, I'm a new Luger owner and new to the forum here. I hope I'm posting this question in the right section of the forum. I have a quick question: The Luger I bought (1938 S/42) came with original grips. I'd like to purchase a set of replica grips to use when I shoot the Luger. Any suggestions as to where I can buy a decent (good materials, fit and finish) set of replica grips. I'd especially enjoy a set of Black Widows. Thanks for your time, Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-22-2014, 08:40 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,198 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I have no experience with these people but they say they have Bakelite grips for the Luger... http://www.historyarms.com/index.html HIGHLY ACCURATE REPRODUCTION BAKELITE PISTOL GRIPS FOR THE LUGER P08 "BLACK WIDOW " . IT IS MADE FROM CAST PHENOLIC RESIN - JUST LIKE ORIGINAL . IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM ORIGINAL. 100% ACCURATE IN EVERY DETAIL AND WITH THE DETAILS ON THE BACK. THEY BLACK IN COLOR . Price $39.00 S&H in USA $6.00 International shipping is extra. If you buy a pair, please post back here and tell us how they look, fit, and feel... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-22-2014, 08:47 AM	#3
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	sheepherder, thanks for the suggestion. It looks like the company (History Arms) has a reasonable refund policy as well. __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-22-2014, 10:44 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	If the grips look like the photo that Sheepherder posted, the price is reasonable... as long as they FIT. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-22-2014, 12:35 PM	#6
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Hey Bill, I'm willing to explore any options for a pair of shooting grips. Feel free to post/email me pics and prices for your grips. Thanks, Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-22-2014, 11:04 AM	#5
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 391 Thanks: 802 Thanked 584 Times in 212 Posts	I hope I'm not out of line in making the offer, but I have a couple of pairs of wooden grips, both original shooter-grade and reproduction that would be more appropriate for a Luger with your markings than plastic "black widow" grips.

05-22-2014, 12:37 PM	#7
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Is the frame of my 1938 Mauser and the "Black Widow" Luger the same? In other words, If I were to purchase Black Widow grips, can I expect that they would fit my Mauser? Thanks, Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-22-2014, 01:18 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Well, since there is no such thing as a black widow frame, the answer would be yes, both are Mauser frames I do not believe the Mauser hump changed the way grips fit - that said, early DWM grips seem to fit lousy on mauser frames... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-22-2014, 02:13 PM	#10
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	John and Edward, I had always assumed that the frames on the Lugers, especially the ones made by the same manufacturer, would generally be the same. Although, I just received a pair of black plastic grip panels (resembling Black Widow Grips) made by N.C. Ordinance yesterday and the fit was very poor. The edges of the grips, where they met the barrel extension and and the Magazine receiver area. Additionally, the angel of the grips were off slightly. So, I wasn't sure if maybe there were minor changes in the Luger frames that I wasn't aware of, or if these were poor replicas of Luger grips. Thanks for the insight, Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-22-2014, 03:30 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Most replica grips are not made the best - its a fairly complicated design, compared say to 1911 grips, which even I can make

05-22-2014, 03:33 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Please post photos of the N.C. Ordinance grips you purchased. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-23-2014, 04:19 AM	#14
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...item35acd7f3bd I saw these on eBay. I am not involved with this sale.

05-23-2014, 08:34 AM	#15
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	jussi, Thanks for the ebay posting. I'll check those out as well. Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-23-2014, 09:16 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	My Recommendation is to spend your money in the USA instead of the Czech Republic. It will be much easier to exchange your purchase if something is not right when they arrive if you source them from this ebay seller. Here is his own caveat: Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. Last updated on May 09, 2014 01:47:06 PDT View all revisions This is a pair of German WWII reproduction pistol grips for the P 08 LUGER pistol. They are made of a hard resin and just need the two screws to attach it the two pieces in place. It is only $6.50 to ship this item anywhere in the US and outside Europe, within the EU it is only $5.50 for postage. PLEASE READ THIS >>>>> The grips were made from a resin casting of an original set of grips. This does not mean that all grips from every Luger are 100% fully interchangeable and that any grips will fit on an Luger without some fitting. The weapons were each hand machined and not fully identical from one to another. Each weapon had to have each part hand fitted to each after it was made. A gunsmith had to take each part and assemble the weapon, grinding, filling away so that the parts fit. So the parts do no get mixed up when being vat blued. Yes that is what the numbers on the parts are for. The same had to be done with the grips. On top of it all different productions runs from then again different makers will produce further variations in the pistols. So in short universally fitting grips without maybe needing some adjustments are not that probable. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-23-2014, 09:55 AM	#17
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Pictures of the N.C. Ordinance Grips First a bit of a paranoid disclaimer: All opinions expressed expressed about the N. C. Ordinance grips are my honest opinions based on my personal experiences. I am not a fire arms professional. I am just someone who enjoys guns. Here's a few thoughts about the N.C. Ordinance "Black Widow" Luger grips: First problem: the grips are actually more of a dark purple color, rather than black. The poorest fit of these grips are on the magazine release side of the gun, where there is a considerable gap between the grip and the barrel extension. For some reason, the grips are rounded at the corners at the bottom of the grip, while the angles on the Luger's frame at the bottom of the handle are 90 degrees. Finally, the plastic feels a bit flimsy, as though If I squeezed too hard they would break. Even with the above problems, I'm keeping these grips to use for shooting, until I find a decent pair of replica grips to replace them with. Thanks, Jeff Attached Thumbnails __________________ Lovin' the Luger!

05-23-2014, 10:15 AM	#18
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 898 Thanks: 882 Thanked 514 Times in 276 Posts	I can attest to the above ebay ad placed by "vit-zemanek" as to the fit and looks as I did place photos of these grips on both a Swiss Bern and an Erfurt Artillery. Easy fit with only a small of filing on the inside lower part of the grips.

05-23-2014, 01:34 PM	#19
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,198 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Here's the thread with pics of NC Ordnance grips... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32155 In the case of mine, the grips won't lie flat...They're warped...And they were cast from a set of very worn grips... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-23-2014, 05:05 PM	#20
envino User Join Date: May 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 25 Thanks: 36 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I ended up going with the Czech ebay seller: vit-zemanek, who's grips jussi posted the link to http://www.ebay.com/itm/GERMAN-ARMY-...item35acd7f3bd I read the thread sheepherder posted http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=32155 regarding the N.C. Ordinance grips. Among these postings, vit-zemanek grips were reviewed as being exceptional. I'll keep you guys up to date with my impressions of vit's "black widow" grips once I receive them. Thanks, Jeff __________________ Lovin' the Luger!