C96 Receiver Question & Answer

[sheepherder]

Some years ago, when waffenrec [a member of the 1896 Mauser Forum from Argentina] was clearing out his C96 stuff, I bought a box of parts from him. This receiver section was among them. I have already drilled & tapped the receiver for a new barrel/caliber [a .223 Remington cartridge shortened to 30 Mauser length] when I belatedly noticed it was unlike any C96 receiver I had seen...

In the event I come across a complete C96 with this type receiver on it, what year/type is it???

Thank you in advance!

(The pic shows it compared to my C96 'Red 5')

Edit: The only number on it is the '5585' on the bottom lug. A 'straight' C96 bolt will not go in past the stripper clip slots. The rear sight cavity is different from my C96's and M30. The thumb reliefs for the bolt are bigger; the rail scallops are shorter. Other differences in the bottom rear.

Edit2: Except for rear sight cavity, it looks like Large Ring Flat Side C96 you linked to at - http://www.armsblue.com/one_arms.php?id=0083

[alvin]

OK. I take it as a quiz.

First things first, looking at this shape, #5585 cannot be Spanish. And looking at this making quality, it cannot be a Chinese copy. It's German for sure.

#5585, not on chamber, but numbered on the receiver's locking lug, then it's before 1899 Italian Navy. Why? Starting from Italian Navy, receiver number was moved to chamber.

What's before Italian Navy? Conehammers were before Italian, Early Large Rings were before Italian too. A few German Test Large Rings were also before Italian. But German Test ones were separately numbered, low s/n stuffs, it could not go as high as #5585, so that possibility can be phased out easily. Early Large Rings were after s/n 12000, they could not have #5585 on receiver. So the only possibility is Conehammer #5585. Then, checking the cutout at the under rear end of the receiver, looking at that sight leaf installation holes... yeah, it's a Conehammer receiver fitting 1-10 sight leaf. From s/n, to s/n location, to features, everything matches conehammer's pattern, then it's conehammer.

The year.... Mauser sold 2375 C96 pistols in 1897. Could #5585 be made in 1897?? Not impossible, but unlikely. Why? Those Turkish C96 were delivered in early 1898. This one should be made after the Turkish. Another 7975 pistols were sold in 1898. Most likely, #5585 was one of them.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

OK. I take it as a quiz.

From s/n, to s/n location, to features, everything matches conehammer's pattern, then it's conehammer.

The year...7975 pistols were sold in 1898. Most likely, #5585 was one of them.

Not quite a quiz, as I do not know answer. But Thank You! for detailed analysis.

Was there an Argentine contract for 1898 Conehammer???

More pics...It is a pity that it is a Mauser C96 that I will never own...I really am getting good at re-barreling...

[alvin]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Was there an Argentine contract for 1898 Conehammer???

Never heard of. If an order was small, say, fifty or a hundred pistols, I would think customer (retailer) could simply order that. Factory's inventory could fill small orders easily. If someone wanted a few guns, probably buying from retailer was the easiest way -- no Paypal.com at that time, I bet it's hard for an individual to do "international business" at that time

Some conehammers had "R.M." on the back of the grip, I heard those came from Republic of Mexico. But that R.M. stamp was applied by user as property mark, not by factory.

Any special mark on gun with Argentine provenance?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

Any special mark on gun with Argentine provenance?

The leaf maybe??? I know I have seen it before, but don't recall where...

This receiver/barrel extension came from Argentina...

[alvin]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

This receiver/barrel extension came from Argentina...

Bought from Argentina directly?? How??

Was it from this guy?

http://www.bronzecannons.net/mausercollection.html

He got #4591, #5122, and #5766, serial is not far away from #5585.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

Bought from Argentina directly?? How??

By purchase from M1896 forum member disposing of C96 collection/spare parts.

[alanint]

If you are referring to the Deer Antler stamping, it is the proof mark of the Ulm Armory. This would make it German.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

If you are referring to the Deer Antler stamping, it is the proof mark of the Ulm Armory. This would make it German.

One of my 1891 Argentine Mausers has it also.

...Or does it??? Looking at it, it could be a bird's wing...Or two hands shaking...

[alanint]

Most South American Mauser style rifles are German. I have an 1895 Chilean Mauser by Ludwig Lowe and a Model 1912 by Styer.

This might be handy: http://g6csy.net/c96/proof.html

[alvin]

Originally Posted by alanint

http://g6csy.net/c96/proof.html

This site is interesting. One of the guns listed in database with picture, #854572 M1930 was in my collection in the past. It's a genuine Nazi owned Broomhandle captured by Norwegian, and exported post WWII. No eagle stamp on it. The gun is 100% original and worked perfectly.

This world is really small.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alanint

Most South American Mauser style rifles are German.

Yes, I should have mentioned that my 1891 Argentine Mausers are German mfg'd. They could have been Belgium contract 1891 7.65 x 53 Mausers, but both have the Argentine marking.

The marking on the bolt hood has me baffled. I originally thought it was the 'leaf' or antler, then it looks like two hands shaking...

[alanint]

I would agree that those are two hands shaking. I'm not familiar with this marking and your theory that it might be Argentine sounds reasonable to me.

[John Sabato]

I think two hands shaking was a symbol used for Lend-Lease materials... but doubt that would apply here.

[alvin]

Not familiar with rifle. But I heard Argentine Model 1891 was one of the best made Mauser rifles. According to "Bolt Action Military Rifles of the World", the handshaking mark is an "inspection mark for individual components". But on his sample (I mean, author's sample), this mark sits next to an interleaved MB stamp... is there an interleaved "MB" stamp somewhere on your instance?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

But on his sample (I mean, author's sample), this mark sits next to an interleaved MB stamp... is there an interleaved "MB" stamp somewhere on your instance?

Yes - You can just make it out in my pics - Just to the left of the Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 stamping, along with another handshake...The handshake I posted separately is on the 'bolt sleeve'...One rifle also has the handshake on the barrel top, just ahead of the receiver; the other rifle has what looks like an intertwined C & U in that spot...

[lfid]

BEWARE !!! of
http://www.bronzecannons.net/mausercollection.html

my 2014 current updated norton 360 says it just blocked a "Blackhole Toolkit Website 38" intrusion for my click on the link ...

if you accessed it ok you may now have the blackhole whatever alive on your system !

http://www.symantec.com/security_res...jsp?asid=27032
has info re the blackhole risks

Bill

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by lfid

BEWARE !!! of
http://www.bronzecannons.net/mausercollection.html

my 2014 current updated norton 360 says it just blocked a "Blackhole Toolkit Website 38" intrusion for my click on the link ...

if you accessed it ok you may now have the blackhole whatever alive on your system !

http://www.symantec.com/security_res...jsp?asid=27032
has info re the blackhole risks

Bill

I don't know if I got the Blackhole thingy, but the first time i clicked that link I got re-directed to a porn site...i tried again and got the Mauser site...

The Norton link didn't give a 'cure' for the Blackhole thingie; have to go online and find one...

[alvin]

Geez, why cannot the seller do clean business... what's the fun in spreading those virus and spyware...

Return to M1891, I bet the crest was grounded off? Handshaking sign was part of the crest. See this instance, the 1st picture shows the crest.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=380360728

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

Geez, why cannot the seller do clean business... what's the fun in spreading those virus and spyware...

Return to M1891, I bet the crest was grounded off? Handshaking sign was part of the crest. See this instance, the 1st picture shows the crest.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=380360728

ClamWin, RootKit Revealer, and MalWareBytes all say my system is clean.

Yes, both my rifles have crest ground off. My books say this was done by Argentine Military. Surplus rifles were sold to neighboring countries. Argentina did not want one neighbor to think they were arming another, so identifying crests were ground off. This is unlikely, as the receivers still say "Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891'...

But GB ad is correct - Rifles with crest intact are rare.