Stuck toggle pin

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-07-2013, 05:44 AM

May I ask you help again please?
I realized that the toggle pin is stuck, maybe owing to decades of unuse. Is there a safe way to free it?
Thanks again

alanint · 03-07-2013, 06:07 AM

Giancarlo. It depends on which toggle pin. If it is the rear toggle pin, just tapping it out right to left with a brass punch or wooden dowel should be enough. I can't imagine any amount of corrosion which would prevent it from coming out with a few, brisk taps. Soaking the area with Kroil, liquid wrench or similar product should loosen it beforehand, it this is preferred.

If it is the center toggle axle you are referring to. This pin is held in by a second, small pin which anchors the axle pin in place. The top of this pin can be seen in the middle of the left toggle "knuckle". This pin needs to be tapped out from the bottom in order to free the larger, center axle pin.

I
The pin that holds the breechblock is also a tap out, with no securing pin.

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-07-2013, 06:30 AM

Many thanks for your reply.
It is the rear toggle pin, I've tried but it won't come out. I worry about damaging it, do you think that tapping too hard can damage the pin?

John Sabato · 03-07-2013, 09:31 AM

Provided that the receiver is properly supported when you try to punch the pin out, no damage should occur.

Locate the left side of the receiver on a surface with a properly sized hole in it...

If you don't have such a surface, I would recommend that you purchase an inexpensive plastic kitchen cutting board and drill a hole in it. The plastic will provide sufficient support for the receiver and will not mar the surface during the removal.

Soak it in good penetrating oil for a few hours or even a day, and then Use a properly sized brass punch and a hammer, and as alanint has already said: It is driven out from the right to the left as you are looking at the back of the Luger...

Once you get it out, you can lightly polish the stubborn surface with 400-600 grit emery cloth to make sure it goes back in easy.

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-07-2013, 09:48 AM

Thanks a lot for your advices, guys! I'll post as soon as possible some pictures of the part involved.

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-07-2013, 09:50 AM

Additional information: the gun was not stripped maybe by decades. I've stripped the upper part without difficulty, the pin is the only part who doesn't give away.

John Sabato · 03-07-2013, 05:15 PM

Signore Passarini,

I forgot to add, make sure the firing pin (striker) has been released on an empty chamber before attempting to remove the pin.

If you don't, in addition to the resistance being offered by the stuck pin, you are also fighting the tension of the striker spring.

mrerick · 03-07-2013, 07:23 PM

It may be worth checking to see if you can rotate the pin by cycling the action. This will help you understand if the corrosion or solidified lubricant is on the rear toggle, or the receiver ears. If you cycle the action, and the pin remains without moving, the adhesion is on the receiver ears. If it moves with the rear toggle, the adhesion is on the toggle itself.

Different models of Luger have a different amount of lip on the left side of the rear toggle pin. It is possible that the sticking is on this lip in line with the side of the receiver rather than along the axis of the pin.

If a lubricant is solidified, it might help to tap the pin and the surface it's adhered to lightly with a nylon or brass head hammer.

This is a very hard pin. My experience has been that they break before they deform.

Marc

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-08-2013, 05:38 AM

Definitely, the pin doesn't move while cycling the action. Many thanks for your reply.

alanint · 03-08-2013, 06:11 AM

The pin is stuck in place by dried out grease, more than likely. As John suggested, find a non-marring surface you can drill a shallow hole into, make the hole slightly larger than the pin diameter. Lay the upper receiver on its left, (safety) side with the pin positioned directly over the hole. Secure the upper to the table with a padded "C" clamp or similar. Cover the balance of the upper with a thick shop towel or other cover, which will prevent scratches or marring, should the punch or hammer slip. Then briskly tap the pin until it moves. The toggle itself will prevent any bending or warping of the upper receivers "fork tongs", as it is firmly wedged between them.

If even this does not work, you might consider gently heating the area, (NOT enough to cause damage or discoloration to the pistol's blueing!!), then repeating the above process.

Good Luck!

alanint · 03-08-2013, 10:36 AM

Yes. I've encountered only one, but it was split right in the middle and allowed enough shift to really bind it in place.

mrerick · 03-08-2013, 04:33 PM

I wonder if, instead of striking the pin to remove it, the use of gradual pressure through use of a gear puller might work better...

Marc

John Sabato · 03-08-2013, 04:57 PM

you could also try a small arbor press to push the pin out...
They sell this one at Harbor Freight...

Thor · 03-08-2013, 05:14 PM

If it is the rear one that goes through the back of the receiver make sure you move right to left because of the lip on the left end. I would soak it in Kroil a day or two, then put it in a zip lock and put it in the freezer for a couple of days Then take it out and gently warm the reciever forks and try to tap it out again making sure you have a place for it to go to. I use a block for this with holes in it so the pin has a place to move to. It helps to have the rear toggle in place, I assume that is locked into place too, but you could have just the reciever forks with the pin through them. The rear toggle will help you keep from pushing and bending the fork alignment during removal.

Giancarlo Passarini · 03-09-2013, 03:55 AM

Many many thanks to you all guys, you've given a tremendous help. May I also ask if it's dangerous to cycle the action with this stuck pin of mine: could it lead to torsion strain of the pin and break it?
Thanks again
Giancarlo

John Sabato · 03-09-2013, 10:17 AM

No it is not dangerous as long as the toggle moves freely... cycling the action would not very likely break this pin... I encourage you to use the methods described and remove the pin for cleaning...

LugerMan.com · 03-19-2013, 04:11 PM

Hi, if you go to a home depot and get some penetrating oil, keep the pin and slide back hevelly oiled for a day.
Or even stick it with a cuip of oil so the pin is covered.

Let it drip out after a day of standing in the oil.

Go to the range and fire a shot or two, it will give a pin some lubrication. after that a small tap on the side and it will comeout.

Giancarlo Passarini · 05-25-2013, 08:51 AM

Pin came out easily after a few taps with a brass punch. Thank you very much for your help, now I can really explore the gun...

03-07-2013, 05:44 AM	#1
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stuck toggle pin May I ask you help again please? I realized that the toggle pin is stuck, maybe owing to decades of unuse. Is there a safe way to free it? Thanks again

03-07-2013, 06:07 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Giancarlo. It depends on which toggle pin. If it is the rear toggle pin, just tapping it out right to left with a brass punch or wooden dowel should be enough. I can't imagine any amount of corrosion which would prevent it from coming out with a few, brisk taps. Soaking the area with Kroil, liquid wrench or similar product should loosen it beforehand, it this is preferred. If it is the center toggle axle you are referring to. This pin is held in by a second, small pin which anchors the axle pin in place. The top of this pin can be seen in the middle of the left toggle "knuckle". This pin needs to be tapped out from the bottom in order to free the larger, center axle pin. I The pin that holds the breechblock is also a tap out, with no securing pin. Last edited by alanint; 03-08-2013 at 06:15 AM.

03-07-2013, 09:31 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Provided that the receiver is properly supported when you try to punch the pin out, no damage should occur. Locate the left side of the receiver on a surface with a properly sized hole in it... If you don't have such a surface, I would recommend that you purchase an inexpensive plastic kitchen cutting board and drill a hole in it. The plastic will provide sufficient support for the receiver and will not mar the surface during the removal. Soak it in good penetrating oil for a few hours or even a day, and then Use a properly sized brass punch and a hammer, and as alanint has already said: It is driven out from the right to the left as you are looking at the back of the Luger... Once you get it out, you can lightly polish the stubborn surface with 400-600 grit emery cloth to make sure it goes back in easy. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-07-2013, 05:15 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Signore Passarini, I forgot to add, make sure the firing pin (striker) has been released on an empty chamber before attempting to remove the pin. If you don't, in addition to the resistance being offered by the stuck pin, you are also fighting the tension of the striker spring. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-07-2013, 07:23 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	It may be worth checking to see if you can rotate the pin by cycling the action. This will help you understand if the corrosion or solidified lubricant is on the rear toggle, or the receiver ears. If you cycle the action, and the pin remains without moving, the adhesion is on the receiver ears. If it moves with the rear toggle, the adhesion is on the toggle itself. Different models of Luger have a different amount of lip on the left side of the rear toggle pin. It is possible that the sticking is on this lip in line with the side of the receiver rather than along the axis of the pin. If a lubricant is solidified, it might help to tap the pin and the surface it's adhered to lightly with a nylon or brass head hammer. This is a very hard pin. My experience has been that they break before they deform. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-07-2013, 06:30 AM	#3
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many thanks for your reply. It is the rear toggle pin, I've tried but it won't come out. I worry about damaging it, do you think that tapping too hard can damage the pin?

03-07-2013, 09:48 AM	#5
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks a lot for your advices, guys! I'll post as soon as possible some pictures of the part involved.

03-07-2013, 09:50 AM	#6
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Additional information: the gun was not stripped maybe by decades. I've stripped the upper part without difficulty, the pin is the only part who doesn't give away.

03-08-2013, 05:38 AM	#9
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Definitely, the pin doesn't move while cycling the action. Many thanks for your reply.

03-08-2013, 06:11 AM	#10
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The pin is stuck in place by dried out grease, more than likely. As John suggested, find a non-marring surface you can drill a shallow hole into, make the hole slightly larger than the pin diameter. Lay the upper receiver on its left, (safety) side with the pin positioned directly over the hole. Secure the upper to the table with a padded "C" clamp or similar. Cover the balance of the upper with a thick shop towel or other cover, which will prevent scratches or marring, should the punch or hammer slip. Then briskly tap the pin until it moves. The toggle itself will prevent any bending or warping of the upper receivers "fork tongs", as it is firmly wedged between them. If even this does not work, you might consider gently heating the area, (NOT enough to cause damage or discoloration to the pistol's blueing!!), then repeating the above process. Good Luck!

03-08-2013, 10:36 AM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Yes. I've encountered only one, but it was split right in the middle and allowed enough shift to really bind it in place.

03-08-2013, 04:33 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	I wonder if, instead of striking the pin to remove it, the use of gradual pressure through use of a gear puller might work better... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-08-2013, 04:57 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	you could also try a small arbor press to push the pin out... They sell this one at Harbor Freight... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-08-2013, 05:14 PM	#14
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	If it is the rear one that goes through the back of the receiver make sure you move right to left because of the lip on the left end. I would soak it in Kroil a day or two, then put it in a zip lock and put it in the freezer for a couple of days Then take it out and gently warm the reciever forks and try to tap it out again making sure you have a place for it to go to. I use a block for this with holes in it so the pin has a place to move to. It helps to have the rear toggle in place, I assume that is locked into place too, but you could have just the reciever forks with the pin through them. The rear toggle will help you keep from pushing and bending the fork alignment during removal. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-09-2013, 03:55 AM	#15
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many many thanks to you all guys, you've given a tremendous help. May I also ask if it's dangerous to cycle the action with this stuck pin of mine: could it lead to torsion strain of the pin and break it? Thanks again Giancarlo

03-09-2013, 10:17 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	No it is not dangerous as long as the toggle moves freely... cycling the action would not very likely break this pin... I encourage you to use the methods described and remove the pin for cleaning... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-19-2013, 04:11 PM	#17
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 364 Times in 116 Posts	Lub and fire Hi, if you go to a home depot and get some penetrating oil, keep the pin and slide back hevelly oiled for a day. Or even stick it with a cuip of oil so the pin is covered. Let it drip out after a day of standing in the oil. Go to the range and fire a shot or two, it will give a pin some lubrication. after that a small tap on the side and it will comeout. __________________ Eugene@LugerMan.com

05-25-2013, 08:51 AM	#18
Giancarlo Passarini User Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9 Thanks: 15 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pin came out easily after a few taps with a brass punch. Thank you very much for your help, now I can really explore the gun...