The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ?

02-22-2002, 05:13 PM

Does anyone know how the 06/24 Swiss Bern luger got the "24" in its name ?

I understand the Swiss starting making these from 1919 through 1933.

Why is it called a 06/24 when first made in 1919 ?

Who started calling it the 06/24 ?

Books I have read so far state it's a bit of a mystery...I haven't gotten my copy of Bobba's swiss luger book yet...

Ron Wood · 02-22-2002, 06:59 PM

Charlie Kenyon started that misnomer. A Swiss friend that he thought was an authority back in the late '50s early '60s told him that Swiss production of Lugers started in 1924, so that is what he published in his book. Charlie has since found out differently and has recanted that label. The generally accepted nomenclature is now "06 Waffenfabrik Bern", which pretty well nails it down. It isn't known (or at least I haven't seen any documentation) whether production started in 1918 or 1919, so that rules out calling it 06/19 Swiss.

02-22-2002, 07:41 PM

Dan Clemons · 02-22-2002, 08:39 PM

John D. · 02-22-2002, 09:56 PM

To add to Ron's post a bit...

According to Bobba, the "24" is a transitional pistol - and is very rare. I think I am correct in his interpreting his comments - and the "20", or "24" or "29" would be the parts Model that Bern used to designate which features/parts that production pistol had (the "24 has both later and newer parts between the more common "20" and "29" series).

So - the "24" appears to be a very limited production (of all designation - the "24" appears to be - termed a "transitional" model which several presentaion Lugers were based) - especially rare with the three line toggle marks.

When you get his book, refer to pages 140 - 144, but I think you find that you have a real gem!!! CONGRATS!

I'll keep reading, tho' ..!!!

Ron Wood · 02-22-2002, 11:08 PM

Dan: The 06 refers to the "new model" designation for the Lugers produced in 1906 when the 1900 models were modified to incorporate the coil mainspring and the breechblock with the improved extractor. Lugers would retain this designation until the introduction of the 1908 model that eliminated the grip safety.

Dan Clemons · 02-22-2002, 11:46 PM

Ron Wood · 02-23-2002, 12:13 AM

Man am I embarrassed! I said that Charlie Kenyon introduced the 06/24 designation, when it was really Fred Datig (1955)! He was the one who relied on his Swiss source for the information on production. Please excuse my "senior moment" and my sincere apologies to Charlie. He properly designates the variation as "1906 Bern" in his book (see pages 212-213 in the earlier edition). I composed my posting while at work without my reference library, and I goofed. I am really sorry. There were almost 18,000 units of this variation produced by Waffenfabrik Bern. The serial numbers started consecutive to the last DWM Swiss, at 15216, and ended in the 33000 range. Again, my sincerest apologies. At this stage of life I should think twice before responding. I think I will shut up for a while.

Johnny Peppers · 02-23-2002, 12:52 AM

The Model 1908 was new in that it eliminated the grip safety, but the Model 1906 with the grip safety remained in production almost as long as the Model 1908. Both the Model 1906 and Model 1908 were produced into the early 70,000 range where the Model 1914 started showing up.

Marvin · 02-23-2002, 07:59 AM

Pete,

You have a really nice looking pistol! The Swiss is one I know absoluty nothing about, but the pistols are beautiful.

One question just came to mind; how was the quality of workmanship of the Swiss pistols compared to the DWM and Mauser made pistols? I realize that the DWM and Mauser would not have the final finish during war years, but would the prewar DWMs have as good or better finish than the Swiss? I also wouls assume that all the Swiss pistols from beginning to end of production would have a quality finish?

Marvin

02-23-2002, 12:49 PM

Marvin,

As a luger newcomer, I cannot really comment about comparative finishes amongst the various makes, models, and dates of manufacturer.

Maybe some of the resident pros on the Luger can say so.

I am just trilled to have had a chance to claim this '06 Swiss Bern as my "starter" collection piece...

Thor · 02-23-2002, 12:53 PM

Pete, you have a WONDERFUL Luger to start off with! I think you will find it has the most beautiful rust blued finish compared to other Lugers you may buy or see. I love the rust blue on DWM Lugers, but I think the SWISS bluing is even prettier!! ~Thor~

Thor · 02-24-2002, 04:12 AM

In the Technical Info section, under production charts, one of the chart shows this: ["NOTE: The Model 1906/24 Swiss is almost identical to the Model 1900/06 made by DWM. The Model 1906/29 is a completely redesigned variation of the DWM type.

? "Baby" .32 ACP ? Reported to be 2/3 size of normal Luger. ? "Pocket" 9? 2t~? Shorter frame & barrel, 5 round magazine."]

A Baby Luger in this variation?????? Where did this come from and is it valid?

Ron Wood · 02-24-2002, 12:42 PM

Because of the odd characters and formatting of the production charts, I have often wondered if it was produced by an OCR (optical character reader) scan from an original document. That might account for missing lines or garbled information. I don't think the reference to the "baby" models has any relationship to the previous line about the Swiss models. I think the "Baby" is actually refering to the ones produced that we know about, authenticated by Herr August Weiss, and just happened to be juxtaposed with the Swiss info by the scanner IMO.

02-22-2002, 05:13 PM	#1
Wm. "Pete" Ebbink Guest Posts: n/a	The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? Does anyone know how the 06/24 Swiss Bern luger got the "24" in its name ? I understand the Swiss starting making these from 1919 through 1933. Why is it called a 06/24 when first made in 1919 ? Who started calling it the 06/24 ? Books I have read so far state it's a bit of a mystery...I haven't gotten my copy of Bobba's swiss luger book yet...

02-22-2002, 06:59 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 5,287 Times in 1,728 Posts	Re: The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? Charlie Kenyon started that misnomer. A Swiss friend that he thought was an authority back in the late '50s early '60s told him that Swiss production of Lugers started in 1924, so that is what he published in his book. Charlie has since found out differently and has recanted that label. The generally accepted nomenclature is now "06 Waffenfabrik Bern", which pretty well nails it down. It isn't known (or at least I haven't seen any documentation) whether production started in 1918 or 1919, so that rules out calling it 06/19 Swiss.

02-22-2002, 07:41 PM	#3
Wm. "Pete" Ebbink Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks, Ron ! (EOM)

02-22-2002, 08:39 PM	#4
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What does the 06 stand for? (EOM)

02-22-2002, 09:56 PM	#5
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 478 Thanked 517 Times in 129 Posts	Re: The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? To add to Ron's post a bit... According to Bobba, the "24" is a transitional pistol - and is very rare. I think I am correct in his interpreting his comments - and the "20", or "24" or "29" would be the parts Model that Bern used to designate which features/parts that production pistol had (the "24 has both later and newer parts between the more common "20" and "29" series). So - the "24" appears to be a very limited production (of all designation - the "24" appears to be - termed a "transitional" model which several presentaion Lugers were based) - especially rare with the three line toggle marks. When you get his book, refer to pages 140 - 144, but I think you find that you have a real gem!!! CONGRATS! I'll keep reading, tho' ..!!!

02-22-2002, 11:08 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 5,287 Times in 1,728 Posts	Re: What does the 06 stand for? Dan: The 06 refers to the "new model" designation for the Lugers produced in 1906 when the 1900 models were modified to incorporate the coil mainspring and the breechblock with the improved extractor. Lugers would retain this designation until the introduction of the 1908 model that eliminated the grip safety.

02-22-2002, 11:46 PM	#7
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Then came the P-08, I got it...thanks. (EOM)

02-23-2002, 12:13 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 5,287 Times in 1,728 Posts	Re: 06/24 Swiss Bern - I am embarrassed Man am I embarrassed! I said that Charlie Kenyon introduced the 06/24 designation, when it was really Fred Datig (1955)! He was the one who relied on his Swiss source for the information on production. Please excuse my "senior moment" and my sincere apologies to Charlie. He properly designates the variation as "1906 Bern" in his book (see pages 212-213 in the earlier edition). I composed my posting while at work without my reference library, and I goofed. I am really sorry. There were almost 18,000 units of this variation produced by Waffenfabrik Bern. The serial numbers started consecutive to the last DWM Swiss, at 15216, and ended in the 33000 range. Again, my sincerest apologies. At this stage of life I should think twice before responding. I think I will shut up for a while.

02-23-2002, 12:52 AM	#9
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: What does the 06 stand for? The Model 1908 was new in that it eliminated the grip safety, but the Model 1906 with the grip safety remained in production almost as long as the Model 1908. Both the Model 1906 and Model 1908 were produced into the early 70,000 range where the Model 1914 started showing up.

02-23-2002, 07:59 AM	#10
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? Pete, You have a really nice looking pistol! The Swiss is one I know absoluty nothing about, but the pistols are beautiful. One question just came to mind; how was the quality of workmanship of the Swiss pistols compared to the DWM and Mauser made pistols? I realize that the DWM and Mauser would not have the final finish during war years, but would the prewar DWMs have as good or better finish than the Swiss? I also wouls assume that all the Swiss pistols from beginning to end of production would have a quality finish? Marvin

02-23-2002, 12:49 PM	#11
Wm. "Pete" Ebbink Guest Posts: n/a	Not An Expert... Marvin, As a luger newcomer, I cannot really comment about comparative finishes amongst the various makes, models, and dates of manufacturer. Maybe some of the resident pros on the Luger can say so. I am just trilled to have had a chance to claim this '06 Swiss Bern as my "starter" collection piece...

02-23-2002, 12:53 PM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: Not An Expert... Pete, you have a WONDERFUL Luger to start off with! I think you will find it has the most beautiful rust blued finish compared to other Lugers you may buy or see. I love the rust blue on DWM Lugers, but I think the SWISS bluing is even prettier!! ~Thor~

02-24-2002, 04:12 AM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? In the Technical Info section, under production charts, one of the chart shows this: ["NOTE: The Model 1906/24 Swiss is almost identical to the Model 1900/06 made by DWM. The Model 1906/29 is a completely redesigned variation of the DWM type. ? "Baby" .32 ACP ? Reported to be 2/3 size of normal Luger. ? "Pocket" 9? 2t~? Shorter frame & barrel, 5 round magazine."] A Baby Luger in this variation?????? Where did this come from and is it valid?

02-24-2002, 12:42 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,121 Thanked 5,287 Times in 1,728 Posts	Re: The "24" in 06/24 Swiss Bern ? Because of the odd characters and formatting of the production charts, I have often wondered if it was produced by an OCR (optical character reader) scan from an original document. That might account for missing lines or garbled information. I don't think the reference to the "baby" models has any relationship to the previous line about the Swiss models. I think the "Baby" is actually refering to the ones produced that we know about, authenticated by Herr August Weiss, and just happened to be juxtaposed with the Swiss info by the scanner IMO.