Colt .45 with capture papers

myky · 07-18-2011, 05:49 PM

Ok guys, here's one for ya ! This past weekend, from a garage sale, was this .45 Colt, 1917 mfg. with WW2 capture papers. Why would we issue capture papers on a piece of our own equipment ? Was it because it wasn't issued for the 2nd WW and the SGT. wanted to bring it home ? Was it left in France after WW1 ? I belive there's several possibilitys.... The capture papers ( 2 ) both describe it as a French Remm pistol....... whatever that is.......

Myky@ctesc.net
www.relicsofthereichs.com

saab-bob · 07-18-2011, 06:29 PM

myky
Nice gun!
All of your theories sound correct. I am just wishing I could go to garage sales and find a WW1 Colt 45s with capture papers!

Bob

Edward Tinker · 07-18-2011, 06:31 PM

by saying French it enabled them to bring it home

It is a Govt Model, not a lot of them were bought for the gov't and could have been private issue. Yours was made in 1917

I have one I carry, it is nickle plated and from 1922.

Ed

sheepherder · 07-18-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

by saying French it enabled them to bring it home

It is a Govt Model, not a lot of them were bought for the gov't and could have been private issue. Yours was made in 1917

Ed

The slide is marked "Colt Automatic Calibre 45"...I'm not into Gov't issued 45's (although I carried several in the Marines) but wouldn't this spelling indicate an export weapon???

Edward Tinker · 07-18-2011, 07:28 PM

No, it was spelled this way until 19xx (unsure of the year).

Ed

tomaustin · 07-18-2011, 07:31 PM

issuing the papers??

alanint · 07-18-2011, 08:10 PM

The gun is a commercial model, not a US issued weapon, (see the "C" prefix to the serial number). This may have been a French officer's private purchase or simply a gun sold in Europe prior to ww2.
I agree that the Lt. probably fudged the "French" designation so that nobody would take the pistol from the GI thinking it was goverment property.

var99 · 07-18-2011, 09:25 PM

Hi Ed

According to Clawson, Colt changing the spelling from "Calibre" to "Caliber" in 1949.

regards

Vince

Patronen · 07-18-2011, 10:37 PM

According to my references France purchased 5,000 commercial Colt 1911 .45 and the serial numbers range is C-17,000-C-28,000 and were shipped to France late November 1915 - late January 1916. Private purchase theory is as good as any.- Dave

sheepherder · 07-18-2011, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myky

This past weekend, from a garage sale, was this .45 Colt, 1917 mfg. with WW2 capture papers.

What was the sale price???

silverknife · 07-19-2011, 08:24 AM

The next time my sweetie wants to go to a garage sale I'm going too!! NICE FIND! Congratulations.

The gun was manufactured in 1917 and it also looks like the shorter grip safety of the 1911 was replaced with the longer grip safety of the A-1. Can't blame whoever made the swap. Getting bitten by the hammer on the web between the thumb and index finger hurts! Photos of the 1911 A-1 grip safety vs the 1911 below:

myky · 07-19-2011, 10:46 AM

Guys........ all of you, thanks so much for your valued input !!! I am completely blank on the history of these pistols. Would it be feasable to get a letter from Colt ? It might give some insight to it's history...... And an answer to one question on the sale price...... $ 450.00.

God bless ! Myky

alanint · 07-19-2011, 11:09 AM

Well, congratulations, you stole this gun!
In its current, unaltered condition, (both trigger and grip safety are fairly easy to replace with originals), along with the very unusual capture papers this gun is worth 3 thousand and perhaps above.
The fact that it was produced as a commercial model in 1917, at the height of Goverment demand for 1911s makes it even rarer.
For a fee, Colt will research and send you a history of the gun.

silverknife · 07-19-2011, 12:16 PM

Absoloutly get a Colt Factory Letter! Cost will be $100.00 and it is well worth it.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/CustomerServ...eServices.aspx

The correct grip safety and trigger should not require any hand fitting.

Regards,
Doug

myky · 07-19-2011, 12:17 PM

Holy **** !! 3K ? You gotta be kidding ! Should I really change out the parts ? If so, where do I find them ? As I said, I'm completely blank on these pistols. And, I guess I'll go ahead and get a letter from Colt as I'd just like to know for my own edification. Bud........ you just made my day ! What a guy !!!!! THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!

God bless ! Myky

silverknife · 07-19-2011, 01:52 PM

Trigger:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=242326856

Grip Safety:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=241507871 (The seller is wrong about the date of the changeover to the A1 longer grip safety. It was 1924 not 1945 but the safety looks right)

Hold on to the parts which you take out.

Regards,
Doug

myky · 07-19-2011, 02:27 PM

Doug........ THANKS !!! As I said before..... YOU ARE THE MAN !
Myky

the gunman · 07-20-2011, 07:51 AM

" One Hell Of A Garage Sale Find " All I see are plastic baby toys and old clothes

myky · 07-20-2011, 07:11 PM

Yeah......... I know all about that........ been to enough of those. There was an ad in the paper saying WW2 items, nothing more. I expected US cloths, patches, etc. When I got there they hadn't put the stuff out yet, they were just opening up. I went inside and saw all that was there.

CavScoutEurope · 09-13-2011, 09:32 AM

You lucky dog!!

07-18-2011, 05:49 PM	#1
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Colt .45 with capture papers Ok guys, here's one for ya ! This past weekend, from a garage sale, was this .45 Colt, 1917 mfg. with WW2 capture papers. Why would we issue capture papers on a piece of our own equipment ? Was it because it wasn't issued for the 2nd WW and the SGT. wanted to bring it home ? Was it left in France after WW1 ? I belive there's several possibilitys.... The capture papers ( 2 ) both describe it as a French Remm pistol....... whatever that is....... Myky@ctesc.net www.relicsofthereichs.com Attached Thumbnails __________________ myky

07-18-2011, 06:29 PM	#2
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	myky Nice gun! All of your theories sound correct. I am just wishing I could go to garage sales and find a WW1 Colt 45s with capture papers! Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

07-18-2011, 07:28 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	No, it was spelled this way until 19xx (unsure of the year). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-18-2011, 07:31 PM	#6
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	didn't the Lt. bother to look at the weapon before issuing the papers??

07-18-2011, 08:10 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The gun is a commercial model, not a US issued weapon, (see the "C" prefix to the serial number). This may have been a French officer's private purchase or simply a gun sold in Europe prior to ww2. I agree that the Lt. probably fudged the "French" designation so that nobody would take the pistol from the GI thinking it was goverment property. Last edited by alanint; 07-18-2011 at 09:35 PM.

07-18-2011, 06:31 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	by saying French it enabled them to bring it home It is a Govt Model, not a lot of them were bought for the gov't and could have been private issue. Yours was made in 1917 I have one I carry, it is nickle plated and from 1922. Ed

07-18-2011, 09:25 PM	#8
var99 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: FL Posts: 114 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Ed According to Clawson, Colt changing the spelling from "Calibre" to "Caliber" in 1949. regards Vince

07-18-2011, 10:37 PM	#9
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	According to my references France purchased 5,000 commercial Colt 1911 .45 and the serial numbers range is C-17,000-C-28,000 and were shipped to France late November 1915 - late January 1916. Private purchase theory is as good as any.- Dave

07-19-2011, 08:24 AM	#11
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	The next time my sweetie wants to go to a garage sale I'm going too!! NICE FIND! Congratulations. The gun was manufactured in 1917 and it also looks like the shorter grip safety of the 1911 was replaced with the longer grip safety of the A-1. Can't blame whoever made the swap. Getting bitten by the hammer on the web between the thumb and index finger hurts! Photos of the 1911 A-1 grip safety vs the 1911 below: Attached Thumbnails __________________ Need #23 side plate & toggle axle pin and #01 hold open.

07-19-2011, 10:46 AM	#12
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Guys........ all of you, thanks so much for your valued input !!! I am completely blank on the history of these pistols. Would it be feasable to get a letter from Colt ? It might give some insight to it's history...... And an answer to one question on the sale price...... $ 450.00. God bless ! Myky __________________ myky

07-19-2011, 11:09 AM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Well, congratulations, you stole this gun! In its current, unaltered condition, (both trigger and grip safety are fairly easy to replace with originals), along with the very unusual capture papers this gun is worth 3 thousand and perhaps above. The fact that it was produced as a commercial model in 1917, at the height of Goverment demand for 1911s makes it even rarer. For a fee, Colt will research and send you a history of the gun.

07-19-2011, 12:16 PM	#14
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	Absoloutly get a Colt Factory Letter! Cost will be $100.00 and it is well worth it. http://www.coltsmfg.com/CustomerServ...eServices.aspx The correct grip safety and trigger should not require any hand fitting. Regards, Doug __________________ Need #23 side plate & toggle axle pin and #01 hold open.

07-19-2011, 12:17 PM	#15
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Colt .45 with capture papers Holy **** !! 3K ? You gotta be kidding ! Should I really change out the parts ? If so, where do I find them ? As I said, I'm completely blank on these pistols. And, I guess I'll go ahead and get a letter from Colt as I'd just like to know for my own edification. Bud........ you just made my day ! What a guy !!!!! THANKS !!!!!!!!!!! God bless ! Myky __________________ myky

07-19-2011, 01:52 PM	#16
silverknife User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Western New York Posts: 78 Thanks: 11 Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts	Trigger: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=242326856 Grip Safety: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=241507871 (The seller is wrong about the date of the changeover to the A1 longer grip safety. It was 1924 not 1945 but the safety looks right) Hold on to the parts which you take out. Regards, Doug __________________ Need #23 side plate & toggle axle pin and #01 hold open.

07-19-2011, 02:27 PM	#17
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Colt .45 with capture papers Doug........ THANKS !!! As I said before..... YOU ARE THE MAN ! Myky __________________ myky

07-20-2011, 07:51 AM	#18
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	" One Hell Of A Garage Sale Find " All I see are plastic baby toys and old clothes

07-20-2011, 07:11 PM	#19
myky User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 178 Thanks: 1 Thanked 22 Times in 9 Posts	Colt .45 with capture papers Yeah......... I know all about that........ been to enough of those. There was an ad in the paper saying WW2 items, nothing more. I expected US cloths, patches, etc. When I got there they hadn't put the stuff out yet, they were just opening up. I went inside and saw all that was there. __________________ myky

09-13-2011, 09:32 AM	#20
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	You lucky dog!!