My first Luger!

Wiking · 04-12-2011, 08:29 AM

I've always wanted a Luger. Picked this one up from RGUNS as a shooter. This was sold to me as a non-matching WWI for $699, but the date is 1937. I've tried to research the marks on this thing to determine its history. I've read that these were Soviet captures?

One question I do have is that the takedown lever will NOT move to a completely horizontal position, probably due to the side plate being a non-matching piece. Should I bother buying a replacement or do ya'll think it'll be fine such as it is?

Also, big thanks to whoever shadowdog500 is on YouTube, his Luger videos have been a big help to me thus far.

Ron Smith · 04-12-2011, 09:06 AM

Brad,

Your Luger is a Russian Capture "RC" Luger, as indicated by the X following the serial number. This is a Russian propery mark.

The Russians captured 100s of thousands and kept them in reserve , without regard to matching the parts. They mixed and matched Imperial and Third Reich components. As long as it worked they didn't care about matching it.

Rather than buying another side plate, use a small fine-cut file to thin the side plate tang. A little at a time, just enough so that the take down lever will slip into position with some resistance. Use 240 grit paper to smooth it up, touch-up with cold blue.

Ron

Hugo Borchardt · 04-12-2011, 09:11 AM

Welcome and congratulations. This one is definitely a WW11 Russian capture. Looks like a few mismatched parts, but you did fine on the price.

I wouldn't shoot it until you get that side plate and takedown lever straight!

Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the club!

Clark

Wiking · 04-12-2011, 04:19 PM

Got the takedown lever horizontal, so I finally took her shooting. I probably fired 30-40 or so rounds through it. Amazing, the accuracy of this thing. Shot at 10 and 25 yards without a hitch. Was hitting bottles and stationary skeet at a little over 25 yards.

Two jams, both came whilst shooting single-handed - no other problems. My buddy shot it wonderfully, my mom also gave it a try and REALLY enjoyed it.

I did notice that almost all of my shells were slightly charred looking on one side. Is this normal? I was shooting two separate boxes of white-box Winchester. My P38 did it, as well - I swear I don't remember this happening before.

Anyway, this puppy feels better and shoots better than both my Springfield 1911A1 and my Walther P38.

Here's a couple of pictures for the heck of it,

Ron Smith · 04-12-2011, 04:26 PM

The "smoking" on the shell casings is normal in nearly any fire arm with certain loads.

Elmer Keith said that a smoked case means that the load is right for the gun. He would experiment with hand loads until he got smoked cases, claiming it's the load that the gun would shoot best.

I've found over the years that he knew what he was talking about. I have a Norwegian Krag that is a tack driver at 200 yds. It smokes cases all the way down one side to the base with it's favorite loads.

Lugers shoot and function best with a firm grip and stiff wrist. They will hang-up when "limp wristed".

Ron

lugerholsterrepair · 04-12-2011, 06:53 PM

Elmer Keith said that a smoked case means that the load is right for the gun.

Who can argue with Elmer Keith? I would think though that on a 9MM semi auto a smoked case might indicate less than a 100% positive headspace? That gas is escaping to the rear alongside the case. Really poor headspace will also dent the side of the case..

I don't know that much about it ...just thinking outloud.

Jerry Burney

Ron Smith · 04-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Jerry,

A smoked case indicates that the bullet has fully seated in the barrel lands creating a perfect seal, which in-turn causes a minute amount of the gas to blow back along the case (path of least resistance).

A complete seal around the bullet, means that there isn't any "blow-Bye" of gases around the bullet. This puts even pressure on the base of the bullet, causing it to fly truer without any pitch or yaw as it leaves the barrel making it more accurate. It's nothing to do with head space, which is almost always indicated by the primer backing out, or in the extreme instance a separted case.

I've been an Elmer Keith fan since he used to write for American Rifleman in the 50's and 60's. I've tested many of his ideas, tips and thoughts on shooting, ammunition and reloading. I've found that he knew what he was talking about in many regards.

Young shooters learn from old shooters...

Ron

lugerholsterrepair · 04-12-2011, 07:31 PM

Ron, Thanks for the lesson..I have always been interested in headspace. I would have to say though that a primer backing out is indicative of extreme pressure which could be caused by many things. The same with a separated case..another instance where this could be caused by several things, not just headspace problems. At any rate it is a very complex subject of great interest to most any shooter who cares about function.

Jerry Burney

mrerick · 04-12-2011, 07:43 PM

Brad,

Is your RC Russian Capture Luger import marked?

If not, it's a rather old import (pre-1968).

Many of these came over in the 1980's and 1990's, but those have import markings.

RC Lugers are becoming collectible in their own sub-genre variation. Search around this forum and you'll find more of their background.

Marc

Ron Smith · 04-12-2011, 07:58 PM

Jerry,

If a primer backs out part way,it's a case of poor head space. If a primer flattens, blows out, or craters flowing into the firing pin hole, thats excessive pressure.

After firing a cartridge, slide your finger over the primer. If it's not still flush with the head of the casing, or is protruding (backed part way out), then it's a head space problem.

One of the primary causes of case separation is bad head space exceding .005". Extreme (overload) pressure is the other more common cause running neck and neck with brittle, over used (stretched), or weaked brass.

Granted, there are other extreme, uncommon and or rare causes for case separations, but these are by far the most common and the first to check for, 99% of the time.

Ron

Wiking · 04-12-2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Brad,

Is your RC Russian Capture Luger import marked?

Marc,

This is an RGUNS import, the marking is nearly invisible, sort of a holographic deal - took me a few hours before I found it. I don't know if it is true, but I have heard these were only recently let go by the Russian government.

- Brad

Ron Smith · 04-12-2011, 08:58 PM

Brad,

I bought my first RC Luger in 1984 or 1985. I think the first batch came into the country around 1983, and have been coming in in smaller and smaller numbers since then. I don't know of any coming in in recent years, but I could be wrong.

Ron

mrerick · 04-12-2011, 09:31 PM

I heard about RGuns getting in a batch a couple of weeks ago. Not sure where they originated...

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 04-13-2011, 12:09 AM

Ron, ^Thanks! I wish I had more time to read...

Jerry

Ron Smith · 04-13-2011, 08:46 AM

Jerry,

Not so much reading, as first hand experience, trial and error.

In addition I have had the privilege of knowing and accruing first hand knowledge from R.G."Bob" West who was P.O. Ackley's assistant in devloping his line of Wild Cat cartridges and was a premier custom rifle builder.

Larry Brace also a premier rifle builder and gunsmith.

Herman Waske a one armed master machinist who sold numerous patents to Huntington/RCBS.

As well as Rick Jamison, whom I've known for over 20 years.

One of my best friends and teachers was a gunsmith named Ron Lynaugh, who had forgotten more about guns and shooting than most people will ever know. He specialized in bluing, and blued many guns for Bob West and Larry Brace.

I've had a lot of very knowleagable friends to draw from.

Ron

lugerholsterrepair · 04-13-2011, 11:18 AM

Ron, An impressive cast of characters! It's fortunate as you say to be associated with such people. Friends like that bring a richness to life you cannot get any other way. I count each Friend I have as a treasure.

Jerry Burney

Vlim · 04-13-2011, 11:40 AM

Normally the stepped ring in the chamber would act as an extra gas seal.
Since this is a relatively late issue P08 it may have been delivered without stepped chamber or with the step removed (for using steel cased P08 rounds).

It would be interesting to check the chamber for the presence of the stepped chamber ring.

Wiking · 04-13-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

It would be interesting to check the chamber for the presence of the stepped chamber ring.

What would the stepped chamber ring look like? I'll snap a photo.

04-12-2011, 08:29 AM	#1
Wiking User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My first Luger! I've always wanted a Luger. Picked this one up from RGUNS as a shooter. This was sold to me as a non-matching WWI for $699, but the date is 1937. I've tried to research the marks on this thing to determine its history. I've read that these were Soviet captures? One question I do have is that the takedown lever will NOT move to a completely horizontal position, probably due to the side plate being a non-matching piece. Should I bother buying a replacement or do ya'll think it'll be fine such as it is? Also, big thanks to whoever shadowdog500 is on YouTube, his Luger videos have been a big help to me thus far. Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2011, 09:06 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Brad, Your Luger is a Russian Capture "RC" Luger, as indicated by the X following the serial number. This is a Russian propery mark. The Russians captured 100s of thousands and kept them in reserve , without regard to matching the parts. They mixed and matched Imperial and Third Reich components. As long as it worked they didn't care about matching it. Rather than buying another side plate, use a small fine-cut file to thin the side plate tang. A little at a time, just enough so that the take down lever will slip into position with some resistance. Use 240 grit paper to smooth it up, touch-up with cold blue. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-12-2011, 09:11 AM	#3
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Welcome and congratulations. This one is definitely a WW11 Russian capture. Looks like a few mismatched parts, but you did fine on the price. I wouldn't shoot it until you get that side plate and takedown lever straight! Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the club! Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-12-2011, 04:19 PM	#4
Wiking User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 8 Thanks: 11 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Got the takedown lever horizontal, so I finally took her shooting. I probably fired 30-40 or so rounds through it. Amazing, the accuracy of this thing. Shot at 10 and 25 yards without a hitch. Was hitting bottles and stationary skeet at a little over 25 yards. Two jams, both came whilst shooting single-handed - no other problems. My buddy shot it wonderfully, my mom also gave it a try and REALLY enjoyed it. I did notice that almost all of my shells were slightly charred looking on one side. Is this normal? I was shooting two separate boxes of white-box Winchester. My P38 did it, as well - I swear I don't remember this happening before. Anyway, this puppy feels better and shoots better than both my Springfield 1911A1 and my Walther P38. Here's a couple of pictures for the heck of it, Attached Thumbnails

04-12-2011, 04:26 PM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The "smoking" on the shell casings is normal in nearly any fire arm with certain loads. Elmer Keith said that a smoked case means that the load is right for the gun. He would experiment with hand loads until he got smoked cases, claiming it's the load that the gun would shoot best. I've found over the years that he knew what he was talking about. I have a Norwegian Krag that is a tack driver at 200 yds. It smokes cases all the way down one side to the base with it's favorite loads. Lugers shoot and function best with a firm grip and stiff wrist. They will hang-up when "limp wristed". Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-12-2011, 06:53 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Elmer Keith said that a smoked case means that the load is right for the gun. Who can argue with Elmer Keith? I would think though that on a 9MM semi auto a smoked case might indicate less than a 100% positive headspace? That gas is escaping to the rear alongside the case. Really poor headspace will also dent the side of the case.. I don't know that much about it ...just thinking outloud. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-12-2011, 07:10 PM	#7
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jerry, A smoked case indicates that the bullet has fully seated in the barrel lands creating a perfect seal, which in-turn causes a minute amount of the gas to blow back along the case (path of least resistance). A complete seal around the bullet, means that there isn't any "blow-Bye" of gases around the bullet. This puts even pressure on the base of the bullet, causing it to fly truer without any pitch or yaw as it leaves the barrel making it more accurate. It's nothing to do with head space, which is almost always indicated by the primer backing out, or in the extreme instance a separted case. I've been an Elmer Keith fan since he used to write for American Rifleman in the 50's and 60's. I've tested many of his ideas, tips and thoughts on shooting, ammunition and reloading. I've found that he knew what he was talking about in many regards. Young shooters learn from old shooters... Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-12-2011, 07:31 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ron, Thanks for the lesson..I have always been interested in headspace. I would have to say though that a primer backing out is indicative of extreme pressure which could be caused by many things. The same with a separated case..another instance where this could be caused by several things, not just headspace problems. At any rate it is a very complex subject of great interest to most any shooter who cares about function. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-12-2011, 07:43 PM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Brad, Is your RC Russian Capture Luger import marked? If not, it's a rather old import (pre-1968). Many of these came over in the 1980's and 1990's, but those have import markings. RC Lugers are becoming collectible in their own sub-genre variation. Search around this forum and you'll find more of their background. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-12-2011, 07:58 PM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jerry, If a primer backs out part way,it's a case of poor head space. If a primer flattens, blows out, or craters flowing into the firing pin hole, thats excessive pressure. After firing a cartridge, slide your finger over the primer. If it's not still flush with the head of the casing, or is protruding (backed part way out), then it's a head space problem. One of the primary causes of case separation is bad head space exceding .005". Extreme (overload) pressure is the other more common cause running neck and neck with brittle, over used (stretched), or weaked brass. Granted, there are other extreme, uncommon and or rare causes for case separations, but these are by far the most common and the first to check for, 99% of the time. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-12-2011, 08:58 PM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Brad, I bought my first RC Luger in 1984 or 1985. I think the first batch came into the country around 1983, and have been coming in in smaller and smaller numbers since then. I don't know of any coming in in recent years, but I could be wrong. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-12-2011, 09:31 PM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	I heard about RGuns getting in a batch a couple of weeks ago. Not sure where they originated... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-13-2011, 12:09 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ron, ^Thanks! I wish I had more time to read... Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-13-2011, 08:46 AM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Jerry, Not so much reading, as first hand experience, trial and error. In addition I have had the privilege of knowing and accruing first hand knowledge from R.G."Bob" West who was P.O. Ackley's assistant in devloping his line of Wild Cat cartridges and was a premier custom rifle builder. Larry Brace also a premier rifle builder and gunsmith. Herman Waske a one armed master machinist who sold numerous patents to Huntington/RCBS. As well as Rick Jamison, whom I've known for over 20 years. One of my best friends and teachers was a gunsmith named Ron Lynaugh, who had forgotten more about guns and shooting than most people will ever know. He specialized in bluing, and blued many guns for Bob West and Larry Brace. I've had a lot of very knowleagable friends to draw from. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-13-2011, 11:18 AM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ron, An impressive cast of characters! It's fortunate as you say to be associated with such people. Friends like that bring a richness to life you cannot get any other way. I count each Friend I have as a treasure. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-13-2011, 11:40 AM	#17
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Normally the stepped ring in the chamber would act as an extra gas seal. Since this is a relatively late issue P08 it may have been delivered without stepped chamber or with the step removed (for using steel cased P08 rounds). It would be interesting to check the chamber for the presence of the stepped chamber ring.