Imperial Vs. WWII

enfield1576 · 01-22-2011, 10:49 PM

Curious with a question. Today went to the fond du lac gun show here in wisconsin and it's the biggest show in the state. Very nice lots of firearms, collectables and stories.

My question is after talking with alot of people throughout the day is why does there seem to be a line drawn between WWI Imperial lugers versus WWII made and marked lugers or any variation.

I talked to those who said the WWI were better and others who said the WWII were better. More collectable, more valuable, one era was junk and then the later ones were junk.

Is there a line drawn between them or is it just mines better than yours. I saw prices all over the board for either WWI's or WWII's.

Just wondering if someone could shed some light on this subject for me. Lugers are new to me, WWI firearms are not. And both WWI and II firearms are equally collectable and important to me.

I had a guy who had a Radom 35 late war he wanted 850 for it. And My luger was'nt for sale, just brought it with me to compare to others, and talk to other luger owners. This guy tells me my 1915 DWM all matching everything is only worth 600 and that the WWII models are much more valuable. I myself think they are all valuable and part of our history.

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2011, 11:09 PM

yes

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2011, 11:11 PM

oh, ok, a real answer. It depends on the seller and the buyer.

WW2 guns sell well because of the movies and it was not as long ago, plus the mystique / infamy of the nazi's.

But the WW1 less valuable than a WW2, not by that margin.

Ed

Norme · 01-22-2011, 11:57 PM

Hi Jerry, As someone who collects both WWI and WWII Lugers, I have to say that I find WWI much more interesting. For one thing there is more mechanical diversity, and the historical events in which these guns participated is even more dramatic than in WWII. However, younger collectors seem to be ignorant of WWI history and are fascinated with Nazi brutality. As a result the earlier Lugers are a bargain, in my opinion. Regards, Norm.
P.S. When at a gun show it's best to keep your eyes open and your ears closed!

enfield1576 · 01-23-2011, 12:08 AM

Thank you for the info Norm, I agree with you on the ignorance of some younger collectors. I myself study both wars for the firearms used and collect from both. But to me the luger getting it's start and use in WWI makes it more collectable from those years. From WWII years I would like to and will one day get some of those dated variants just to make a nice collection.

Lugerdoc · 01-23-2011, 11:50 AM

I mostly agree with Norm above. As far as pricing: just remember the 2 main factors are rarity (number produced and remaining), originality & CONDITION. th

DavidJayUden · 01-23-2011, 12:11 PM

Here's a few pro's for each.
WW1: nicer finish that involved more time, closer fit and finish, made in a time when a man's time was worth little, and they are older.
WW2: newer and possibly improved metalurgy making better lasting shooters, the alure of the Nazis with more collector interest. (There is just not as much facination with the first War to End all Wars).
Other factors include numbers produced, numbers surviving, etc.
In the end it all comes down to which one spins your crank the fastest. I like them all but the earlier ones seem to be easier on my eyes. Entirely personal.
Anyone with a strong opinion that one is so much better than the other either has tunnel vision or has way too much money intested in the models of their preference.
dju

enfield1576 · 01-23-2011, 12:25 PM

DJU I think I know what you mean on the too much money invested in models of their preference. One of the guys I talked to at the show who said the WWI's were nothing special, had seven WWII models on his table, none for sale, just for show and wanted to buy my 1915 DWM for a shooter since he felt the WWI's weren't as collectable. He had nice looking pieces from what I could see, if they were matching it's hard to tell. It's all rather new to me with lugers, but I will say the mystique, the pride in ones collection and the history is all very overpowering to say the least. I do thank evryone here for all their help and info though very much.

DavidJayUden · 01-23-2011, 12:50 PM

As with settling so many of life's controversies, follow the money.
dju

enfield1576 · 01-23-2011, 01:00 PM

some things yes will agree. If i could sell a 72 ford pinto with 200,000 miles on it for 10,000 I would. But to me military firearms even a 91/30 nagant is priceless, it's the history behind it that I care about. But seems to me it's getting away from the history and figuring out that behind the piece and preserving it and all it's settled around is a dollar sign anymore.

sheepherder · 01-23-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enfield1576

...One of the guys I talked to at the show who said the WWI's were nothing special, had seven WWII models on his table, none for sale, just for show and wanted to buy my 1915 DWM for a shooter since he felt the WWI's weren't as collectable...

Yes...I know that guy...He's at every gun show that ever existed...His weapons are priceless; yours are junk...But because he's such a nice guy, he'll give you a couple bucks for your piece...

StarOfTheWest · 01-23-2011, 07:51 PM

Well, my all time favorites are at opposite ends of the time line: the 1900-02s are just pure gorgeous art, and the same can be said of the Krieghoffs.

ALL Lugers attract me, just some more than others.
So, my collection is all over the time frames, could never just settle down to one make or era.

StarOfTheWest · 01-23-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Yes...I know that guy...He's at every gun show that ever existed...His weapons are priceless; yours are junk...But because he's such a nice guy, he'll give you a couple bucks for your piece...

Yepp, he used to do the gun shows in Denver too.
I remember him well.

abukafura · 01-23-2011, 08:48 PM

I had a table at this show over the weekend. Had about 9 Imperial Lugers on my table at varying prices. Some people wanted to know why there were difference in prices and, as always, told them what has been stated above....depends on condition (mostly), plus the rarity factor. For example, I Took pains to explain that my Lugers with two matched mags and holster are more valuable than ones that do not have matched mags and to show the differences in condition between the guns. I did have a couple people ask me about Imperial vs WW2 Lugers...not sure if you were one of them, but I think I would always say that it just depends on what you like. It was a great little show this weekend.

Jason L · 01-23-2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enfield1576

Thank you for the info Norm, I agree with you on the ignorance of some younger collectors.

I am a young collector,or I would like to think so at 38. Got Stereotypes?

Hugo Borchardt · 01-23-2011, 09:34 PM

Definitely a matter of preference. The earlier the better to me. The 1900-1906's are artwork IMO. The WW1 guns with the unit marks seem to have a lot of character to me. I'm not a big fan of the "Natzi" Lugers that seem to be the hottest items right now, though I like the PPs/PPKs and accumulate an occasional P-38.

Norme · 01-23-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason L

I am a young collector,or I would like to think so at 38. Got Stereotypes?

Present company excepted. Regards, Norm.

beachbaker · 01-23-2011, 10:57 PM

The first luger that I bought was a byf42 and thought that the WWII era was going to be my interest. A few months later I was at the Reno gunshow and Jan Still was there selling his books and one unit marked DWM 1914. I immediately fell for Imperial Lugers. I bought that one from him and have acquired many more since then but no more WWII lugers at all. The only WWII guns I have bought are the early high gloss p38's early pp's, and early ppk's. I think when it comes to collecting lugers your real interest will take you one way or the other. That is not to say that I still on occasion buy other guns if they are too nice to pass up even if they are a little astray from my main interest. So, I would have to say I find the Imperials much more interesting and collectible than the Nazi era, but that is just me. Fortunately, there are enough eras and sub eras and variations to keep it interesting for all of us. Curt

Edward Tinker · 01-24-2011, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason L

I am a young collector,or I would like to think so at 38. Got Stereotypes?

yes, I am one of the younger collectors too, and I'm 50

Several years ago we had a 'poll' where folks showed their age, another poll showed how many lugers folks had, both were anonymous; yet, talk about the hell it raised!

Anyway, it showed that many of the guys were well over 60 and some in their 80's.

Point is, that the folks who contribute and share, well, many are much older, but remember that younger is not always age, but how much knowledge you have. I know lots of 'newer, younger" collectors who out-age me by a decade or two... Knowledge is not always off the top of your head, but from all the books we own. I am a good generalist when it comes to lugers, I know a lot, but I know a lot because I can go get a luger book and half-way remember where the info was

Even here traveling to Saudi Arabia, I brought 6 thick books with me, originally I had 15, but at Christmas time I took more than half home with me.

Ed

mrerick · 01-24-2011, 10:19 AM

Hi Jerry,

Welcome to the Forum.

If your 1915 DWM military (9mm) luger was in it's original finish, with all matching and correct parts and the finish condition was over 90%, the person trying to buy it from your for $600 was trying to cheat you by offering 50% of it's value or less.

If it was refinished as some point, has non-matching parts, has minor mechanical issues or a poor original finish, the person was trying to offer you a price that would allow him to make $200 to $300 on a resale.

You should check out some of the online dealers in Lugers, look at our trader sections here and also invest in some of the reference books if your interest in Lugers is growing.

All Lugers have a market. Some Lugers have collector interest. Some Lugers have utilitarian "Shooter" interest. Ultimately, you determine the $$$$ it's worth when you actually sell it.

Cheers!!

Marc

01-22-2011, 10:49 PM	#1
enfield1576 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 25 Thanks: 24 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Imperial Vs. WWII Curious with a question. Today went to the fond du lac gun show here in wisconsin and it's the biggest show in the state. Very nice lots of firearms, collectables and stories. My question is after talking with alot of people throughout the day is why does there seem to be a line drawn between WWI Imperial lugers versus WWII made and marked lugers or any variation. I talked to those who said the WWI were better and others who said the WWII were better. More collectable, more valuable, one era was junk and then the later ones were junk. Is there a line drawn between them or is it just mines better than yours. I saw prices all over the board for either WWI's or WWII's. Just wondering if someone could shed some light on this subject for me. Lugers are new to me, WWI firearms are not. And both WWI and II firearms are equally collectable and important to me. I had a guy who had a Radom 35 late war he wanted 850 for it. And My luger was'nt for sale, just brought it with me to compare to others, and talk to other luger owners. This guy tells me my 1915 DWM all matching everything is only worth 600 and that the WWII models are much more valuable. I myself think they are all valuable and part of our history.

01-23-2011, 11:50 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I mostly agree with Norm above. As far as pricing: just remember the 2 main factors are rarity (number produced and remaining), originality & CONDITION. th __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-23-2011, 07:51 PM	#12
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Well, my all time favorites are at opposite ends of the time line: the 1900-02s are just pure gorgeous art, and the same can be said of the Krieghoffs. ALL Lugers attract me, just some more than others. So, my collection is all over the time frames, could never just settle down to one make or era. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-23-2011, 09:34 PM	#16
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 372 Thanks: 340 Thanked 143 Times in 48 Posts	Definitely a matter of preference. The earlier the better to me. The 1900-1906's are artwork IMO. The WW1 guns with the unit marks seem to have a lot of character to me. I'm not a big fan of the "Natzi" Lugers that seem to be the hottest items right now, though I like the PPs/PPKs and accumulate an occasional P-38. __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

01-23-2011, 10:57 PM	#18
beachbaker Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 137 Thanks: 31 Thanked 109 Times in 30 Posts	The first luger that I bought was a byf42 and thought that the WWII era was going to be my interest. A few months later I was at the Reno gunshow and Jan Still was there selling his books and one unit marked DWM 1914. I immediately fell for Imperial Lugers. I bought that one from him and have acquired many more since then but no more WWII lugers at all. The only WWII guns I have bought are the early high gloss p38's early pp's, and early ppk's. I think when it comes to collecting lugers your real interest will take you one way or the other. That is not to say that I still on occasion buy other guns if they are too nice to pass up even if they are a little astray from my main interest. So, I would have to say I find the Imperials much more interesting and collectible than the Nazi era, but that is just me. Fortunately, there are enough eras and sub eras and variations to keep it interesting for all of us. Curt __________________ Curt

01-22-2011, 11:09 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	yes

01-22-2011, 11:11 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	oh, ok, a real answer. It depends on the seller and the buyer. WW2 guns sell well because of the movies and it was not as long ago, plus the mystique / infamy of the nazi's. But the WW1 less valuable than a WW2, not by that margin. Ed

01-22-2011, 11:57 PM	#4
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Jerry, As someone who collects both WWI and WWII Lugers, I have to say that I find WWI much more interesting. For one thing there is more mechanical diversity, and the historical events in which these guns participated is even more dramatic than in WWII. However, younger collectors seem to be ignorant of WWI history and are fascinated with Nazi brutality. As a result the earlier Lugers are a bargain, in my opinion. Regards, Norm. P.S. When at a gun show it's best to keep your eyes open and your ears closed!

01-23-2011, 12:08 AM	#5
enfield1576 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 25 Thanks: 24 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thank you for the info Norm, I agree with you on the ignorance of some younger collectors. I myself study both wars for the firearms used and collect from both. But to me the luger getting it's start and use in WWI makes it more collectable from those years. From WWII years I would like to and will one day get some of those dated variants just to make a nice collection.

01-23-2011, 12:11 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Here's a few pro's for each. WW1: nicer finish that involved more time, closer fit and finish, made in a time when a man's time was worth little, and they are older. WW2: newer and possibly improved metalurgy making better lasting shooters, the alure of the Nazis with more collector interest. (There is just not as much facination with the first War to End all Wars). Other factors include numbers produced, numbers surviving, etc. In the end it all comes down to which one spins your crank the fastest. I like them all but the earlier ones seem to be easier on my eyes. Entirely personal. Anyone with a strong opinion that one is so much better than the other either has tunnel vision or has way too much money intested in the models of their preference. dju

01-23-2011, 12:25 PM	#8
enfield1576 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 25 Thanks: 24 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	DJU I think I know what you mean on the too much money invested in models of their preference. One of the guys I talked to at the show who said the WWI's were nothing special, had seven WWII models on his table, none for sale, just for show and wanted to buy my 1915 DWM for a shooter since he felt the WWI's weren't as collectable. He had nice looking pieces from what I could see, if they were matching it's hard to tell. It's all rather new to me with lugers, but I will say the mystique, the pride in ones collection and the history is all very overpowering to say the least. I do thank evryone here for all their help and info though very much.

01-23-2011, 12:50 PM	#9
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	As with settling so many of life's controversies, follow the money. dju

01-23-2011, 01:00 PM	#10
enfield1576 User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 25 Thanks: 24 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	some things yes will agree. If i could sell a 72 ford pinto with 200,000 miles on it for 10,000 I would. But to me military firearms even a 91/30 nagant is priceless, it's the history behind it that I care about. But seems to me it's getting away from the history and figuring out that behind the piece and preserving it and all it's settled around is a dollar sign anymore.

01-23-2011, 08:48 PM	#14
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 90 Times in 57 Posts	I had a table at this show over the weekend. Had about 9 Imperial Lugers on my table at varying prices. Some people wanted to know why there were difference in prices and, as always, told them what has been stated above....depends on condition (mostly), plus the rarity factor. For example, I Took pains to explain that my Lugers with two matched mags and holster are more valuable than ones that do not have matched mags and to show the differences in condition between the guns. I did have a couple people ask me about Imperial vs WW2 Lugers...not sure if you were one of them, but I think I would always say that it just depends on what you like. It was a great little show this weekend.

01-24-2011, 10:19 AM	#20
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Hi Jerry, Welcome to the Forum. If your 1915 DWM military (9mm) luger was in it's original finish, with all matching and correct parts and the finish condition was over 90%, the person trying to buy it from your for $600 was trying to cheat you by offering 50% of it's value or less. If it was refinished as some point, has non-matching parts, has minor mechanical issues or a poor original finish, the person was trying to offer you a price that would allow him to make $200 to $300 on a resale. You should check out some of the online dealers in Lugers, look at our trader sections here and also invest in some of the reference books if your interest in Lugers is growing. All Lugers have a market. Some Lugers have collector interest. Some Lugers have utilitarian "Shooter" interest. Ultimately, you determine the $$$$ it's worth when you actually sell it. Cheers!! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.