Real or Reproduction?

mrerick · 09-27-2010, 12:33 PM

Hi,

I have this "gyo" manufactured "41" "WaA98" marked holster, received with a recent Luger purchase:

It's stitching looks similar to a know reproduction holster that I have, yet other features (the pull on the loop; stitching pattern holding the loop; buckle hardware) look like the genuine holsters I have. The formation / stitching of the bottom of the magazine well also matches the genuine holsters.

Leather age looks genuine, including cracked buckle strap; rub patterns and scratches.

Does this one look like a reproduction?

Thanks, Marc

alanint · 09-27-2010, 12:53 PM

Looks good to me.

One dead give-away is usually the quality of the tool pouch. Since it is hidden, fakers don't always lavish much attention on them. Whenever I see a tool pouch whose edges stick out a good bit from the profile stitching or whose corners are not well formed and use cheap, thin leather it always raises doubts.

Vlim · 09-27-2010, 12:58 PM

I agree. Seems real enough to me!

mrerick · 09-27-2010, 06:19 PM

Doug and Gerban, thanks for your feedback on this.

I'm actually less confident at this point evaluating a holster than a Luger itself.

It's a long and fascinating learning curve.

I don't have a picture, but my reproduction holster has a very sloppy placement of the tool pouch, with stitching overlapping the stitching that holds the top flap to the holster body.

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 09-27-2010, 08:10 PM

Marc, Your holster is without doubt an authentic period holster. It has a feature that is found in your second photo that you will not see on earlier holsters or reproductions. This is mostly found on later Luger holsters...Can you find it? This contest is open to all.

jerry

mrerick · 09-27-2010, 08:32 PM

Is it the black painted metal hardware?

Marc

lugerholsterrepair · 09-27-2010, 08:47 PM

Black painted buckles are relatively common among all kinds of holsters, both real and repro..nope! Keep looking. It's right there in plain view.

details..details..learn to LOOK grasshopper!

Jerry

mrerick · 09-27-2010, 08:54 PM

Perhaps the very thick tapering third piece of leather sewn between the front and rear pieces, as a finished surface backing for the inside of the holster?

Your keen but unworthy student...

lugerholsterrepair · 09-27-2010, 09:06 PM

That's it! For some reason later holsters had this spacer inserted..ostensibly to give a tad more room in the pistol handle area. I have never seen this feature on a repro.

Good job and a keen eye.

Jerry Burney

mrerick · 09-27-2010, 09:13 PM

Jerry,

Thank you Master... Seriously - for your expertise, and willingness to share it.

Those kind of details are key to understanding the originality of things.

I recently bought the book "The Art of the Faker" by Frank Arnau. It's mostly about art forgeries, but extends discussion into physical objects. Many of his observations apply to our field of collecting and interests...

I consider these interests to be as much about history and education as they are about things that go bang!

Marc

Geoff Smith · 12-10-2010, 05:56 AM

Hi Marc

I don't know much about authenticity of holsters, but the "byo" code you quote looks, in your photographs more like "gyo" to me, which suggests, assuming it is authentic, that it was made by Hans Dinkelmaeyer Lederwarenfabrik, Nuremberg

Cheers from down under,

Geoff

mrerick · 12-10-2010, 09:15 AM

Geoff,

Thanks for your review and posting. That was a typo on my part in the first posting. It is, in fact, "gyo" and I appreciate knowing the manufacturer.

Marc

09-27-2010, 12:33 PM	#1
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Real or Reproduction? Hi, I have this "gyo" manufactured "41" "WaA98" marked holster, received with a recent Luger purchase: It's stitching looks similar to a know reproduction holster that I have, yet other features (the pull on the loop; stitching pattern holding the loop; buckle hardware) look like the genuine holsters I have. The formation / stitching of the bottom of the magazine well also matches the genuine holsters. Leather age looks genuine, including cracked buckle strap; rub patterns and scratches. Does this one look like a reproduction? Thanks, Marc Attached Thumbnails __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-27-2010, 12:53 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Looks good to me. One dead give-away is usually the quality of the tool pouch. Since it is hidden, fakers don't always lavish much attention on them. Whenever I see a tool pouch whose edges stick out a good bit from the profile stitching or whose corners are not well formed and use cheap, thin leather it always raises doubts. Last edited by alanint; 09-27-2010 at 02:50 PM.

09-27-2010, 06:19 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Doug and Gerban, thanks for your feedback on this. I'm actually less confident at this point evaluating a holster than a Luger itself. It's a long and fascinating learning curve. I don't have a picture, but my reproduction holster has a very sloppy placement of the tool pouch, with stitching overlapping the stitching that holds the top flap to the holster body. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-27-2010, 08:10 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	Marc, Your holster is without doubt an authentic period holster. It has a feature that is found in your second photo that you will not see on earlier holsters or reproductions. This is mostly found on later Luger holsters...Can you find it? This contest is open to all. jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-27-2010, 08:32 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Is it the black painted metal hardware? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-27-2010, 12:58 PM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	I agree. Seems real enough to me!

09-27-2010, 08:47 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	Black painted buckles are relatively common among all kinds of holsters, both real and repro..nope! Keep looking. It's right there in plain view. details..details..learn to LOOK grasshopper! Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-27-2010, 08:54 PM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Perhaps the very thick tapering third piece of leather sewn between the front and rear pieces, as a finished surface backing for the inside of the holster? Your keen but unworthy student... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-27-2010, 09:06 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	That's it! For some reason later holsters had this spacer inserted..ostensibly to give a tad more room in the pistol handle area. I have never seen this feature on a repro. Good job and a keen eye. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-27-2010, 09:13 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Jerry, Thank you Master... Seriously - for your expertise, and willingness to share it. Those kind of details are key to understanding the originality of things. I recently bought the book "The Art of the Faker" by Frank Arnau. It's mostly about art forgeries, but extends discussion into physical objects. Many of his observations apply to our field of collecting and interests... I consider these interests to be as much about history and education as they are about things that go bang! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-10-2010, 05:56 AM	#11
Geoff Smith New User Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: South Australia Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Marc I don't know much about authenticity of holsters, but the "byo" code you quote looks, in your photographs more like "gyo" to me, which suggests, assuming it is authentic, that it was made by Hans Dinkelmaeyer Lederwarenfabrik, Nuremberg Cheers from down under, Geoff

12-10-2010, 09:15 AM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,915 Thanks: 1,375 Thanked 3,123 Times in 1,513 Posts	Geoff, Thanks for your review and posting. That was a typo on my part in the first posting. It is, in fact, "gyo" and I appreciate knowing the manufacturer. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.