Looking for some assistance

Appleton · 10-23-2010, 11:03 PM

I am new to site and was hopeful that I could get some help with a gun that I inherited.
I believe that it is a 1914 (no date stamp on the gun, only holster) 7.65mm DWM. The serial number is 863 and has a crown N proof, but lacks many of the other markings that seem to show up on the other Lugers of this era. All the numbers match, but the holster seems to have been altered (shortened) and the bluing on the barrel is slightly different from that of the gun. I brought it to a local gun shop, the gentlemen was very nice, but admittedly didn't have a lot of expertise with Luger's.

Appleton · 10-23-2010, 11:07 PM

Here are some additional pic's

Ron Smith · 10-23-2010, 11:29 PM

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. Your Luger looks to be an Alphabet Commercial, the most common variation, but in exceptional condition. Is it stamped "GERMANY" ? Many thousands of these were imported into the U.S. in the 20's for commercial sale. These usually sell for $700-$800, but in this condition I would guess it could go for $1000-$1200 to an interested party.

The holster is an Imperial WWI 8" Artillery holster shortened to 4" for issue to the German Weimar Police, post WWI. The twist latch is an enhancement added here in the U.S. at some point in time destroying any appreciable value. It's worth maybe $50-$75.

Ron

Appleton · 10-24-2010, 12:20 AM

Yes, it is stamped "Made in Germany".

MFC · 10-24-2010, 12:39 AM

The 'm' is part of the S#. The full serial# is 863m. Your Luger was made in late 1923 or early 1924.

Appleton · 10-24-2010, 10:05 AM

Was this common that a Luger made in 1923 or 1924 got place in a holster stamped (made?) in 1914?

Appleton · 10-24-2010, 10:12 AM

This stamp is under the flap of the holster

Ron Smith · 10-24-2010, 10:20 AM

Al,

The Luger was imported in the 20's for commercial sale. It didn't come with the holster. The holster was purchased to go with the Luger at a later date.

The holster has had the strap fastener added by someone here in the states. The Germans didn't use this type of fastener. It originally had a brass or steel stud to hold the strap, which was mounted on another piece of leather that held the holster to an Artillery Luger stock harness.

Here are a couple of photos of what the holster would have looked like originally. Many of these Artillery holsters were separated from the harness and stock after WWI, and shortened for issue to the police in the 20's.

Your holster probably made it's way to the States after WWII and was purchased to hold the Luger.

Ron

Appleton · 10-24-2010, 10:30 AM

Thanks Ron. I was surprised to learn that a holster made in 1914 got matched up with a gun made some 20 years later. Had the holster not been altered, would it have a value?

Appleton · 10-24-2010, 10:38 AM

Ron,
I just looked at the pictures you sent of the original 1914 artillery holster. Interesting to know that my holster started off like this. Thanks for all your help.
Al

lugerholsterrepair · 10-24-2010, 11:20 AM

Al, I just looked at the pictures you sent of the original 1914 artillery holster. This photo that Ron put up is NOT an original Artillery holster but a reproduction.

Jerry Burney

Ron Smith · 10-24-2010, 11:49 AM

Al,

As Jerry says, it's a repro. I just wanted to show you the original style. If your holster was still original configuration it would be worth hundreds of dollars. With the original stock and harness, several hundred more. These holster rigs were made from 1914 thru 1918.

Ron

10-23-2010, 11:03 PM	#1
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looking for some assistance I am new to site and was hopeful that I could get some help with a gun that I inherited. I believe that it is a 1914 (no date stamp on the gun, only holster) 7.65mm DWM. The serial number is 863 and has a crown N proof, but lacks many of the other markings that seem to show up on the other Lugers of this era. All the numbers match, but the holster seems to have been altered (shortened) and the bluing on the barrel is slightly different from that of the gun. I brought it to a local gun shop, the gentlemen was very nice, but admittedly didn't have a lot of expertise with Luger's. Attached Thumbnails

10-23-2010, 11:07 PM	#2
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some additional photo's Here are some additional pic's Attached Thumbnails

10-23-2010, 11:29 PM	#3
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi, Welcome to the forum. Your Luger looks to be an Alphabet Commercial, the most common variation, but in exceptional condition. Is it stamped "GERMANY" ? Many thousands of these were imported into the U.S. in the 20's for commercial sale. These usually sell for $700-$800, but in this condition I would guess it could go for $1000-$1200 to an interested party. The holster is an Imperial WWI 8" Artillery holster shortened to 4" for issue to the German Weimar Police, post WWI. The twist latch is an enhancement added here in the U.S. at some point in time destroying any appreciable value. It's worth maybe $50-$75. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-24-2010, 12:20 AM	#4
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help Yes, it is stamped "Made in Germany". Attached Thumbnails

10-24-2010, 12:39 AM	#5
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	The 'm' is part of the S#. The full serial# is 863m. Your Luger was made in late 1923 or early 1924. __________________ Mike C.

10-24-2010, 10:05 AM	#6
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Was this common that a Luger made in 1923 or 1924 got place in a holster stamped (made?) in 1914?

10-24-2010, 10:12 AM	#7
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This stamp is under the flap of the holster

10-24-2010, 10:20 AM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Al, The Luger was imported in the 20's for commercial sale. It didn't come with the holster. The holster was purchased to go with the Luger at a later date. The holster has had the strap fastener added by someone here in the states. The Germans didn't use this type of fastener. It originally had a brass or steel stud to hold the strap, which was mounted on another piece of leather that held the holster to an Artillery Luger stock harness. Here are a couple of photos of what the holster would have looked like originally. Many of these Artillery holsters were separated from the harness and stock after WWI, and shortened for issue to the police in the 20's. Your holster probably made it's way to the States after WWII and was purchased to hold the Luger. Ron Attached Images __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-24-2010, 10:30 AM	#9
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ron. I was surprised to learn that a holster made in 1914 got matched up with a gun made some 20 years later. Had the holster not been altered, would it have a value? Attached Thumbnails

10-24-2010, 10:38 AM	#10
Appleton User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, I just looked at the pictures you sent of the original 1914 artillery holster. Interesting to know that my holster started off like this. Thanks for all your help. Al

10-24-2010, 11:20 AM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Al, I just looked at the pictures you sent of the original 1914 artillery holster. This photo that Ron put up is NOT an original Artillery holster but a reproduction. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-24-2010, 11:49 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Al, As Jerry says, it's a repro. I just wanted to show you the original style. If your holster was still original configuration it would be worth hundreds of dollars. With the original stock and harness, several hundred more. These holster rigs were made from 1914 thru 1918. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...