Long Barrel Madness + Questions

[worldoftone]

Long story short . . . bought a $750 shooter, parts Luger under the assumption that it worked fine. Well, hasn't worked correctly since I bought it. 16-inch barrel looks like. HAD scope, forearm etc. before today.

Problem #1: Original breech block failed. Got breech block from GT. Gunsmith at store I bought it from couldn't fix it.

Problem #2: He couldn't repair it mainly for firing-pin issues where the pin wouldn't strike the primer hard enough. Took it to second gunsmith. He fixed firing pin. Firing pin broke after a couple of rounds at range. He repaired the pin. Took to range today. Pin broke again eventually (not surprised) but here is what I DID find out before the pin broke:

Problem #3: Pistol would not extract round or cycle correctly. I then wondered if weight of scope etc. attached to barrel would have caused the function issues. I removed forearm, and scope. Pistol started firing correctly, but had some intermittent extraction issues. Then the scope mount blew off (not surprisingly - see pics). After that, the pistol started working much better, but then the firing pin broke again.

Soooo . . .

Question 1: Pistol does not have a rear sight. I looked at the way it is refinished etc and I THINK I might need a new toggle. Please see pics. If so, I'll have to get one from someone on here. Unless there is a way to affix one back on this toggle - I kind of doubt it. I am planning on leaving that abomination of a scope off the gun. Any other rear-sight ideas for me?

Question #2: Please look at the machining marks on the barrel that were used to mount the scope. They bored slightly into the top of the barrel before affixing the scope rail with epoxy Will this affect the safety of the firearm?

Question #3: Can anyone tell by looking exactly WHAT type of barrel this is? Numrich, etc. No stamps or marks on the barrel whatsoever.

Question #4: SN on the frame is 86515. Looks to have been slightly machined off before it was blued. Where exactly does that put this frame date wise? Receiver is a 1939.

I have read threads on here about these long barrels and understand that they are a bit tricky to get right. I've already lost my butt on this one, so I think just getting it operational would be nice!

- WOT

[sheepherder]

Pic of the front of the grip frame (where serial should be) - If the receiver is properly in place, it looks like the grip frame has been ground down...quite a bit...

Toggle pic shows crude file marks where the rear sight should be...

Can't see what happened to the breech block...

[policeluger]

If you care to give me a call next week before Thur. I would be glad to discuss it with you....not much for long emails, and a little bit of surgery Thur. AM out of town, bet we can get it going. Not soliciting work, as I have stopped taking in new jobs until after 1st of year, yeah that busy........any 1834 Springfield experts out there????.....hope this is of some help. sorry 760-375-5703

[G.T.]

WoW! The firing pin shouldn't be breaking!!! .........Maybe once in'a'while on a dark night or a blue moon?...but not every time to the range! ..........Maybe the breechblock I sent, or the firing pin you have, is not correct??... Send me the breech block, or the whole toggle train, back and I'll test & correct, and / or, send you another with a firing pin already installed.... If you want to take all that scope "stuff" off.. I also have a rear toggle with a sight on it... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT... (hopefully with a little help, you can find, recover, and re-attach your butt!!!!!)

[worldoftone]

GT - yeah, that sounds great! I'll call you today or tomorrow. Let me know what time is best. Was thinking it was a parts/combination issue. Gonna leave the scope off for now because the way it was mounted, well, no way it will last. 20-rds or so is when it blew off. By the way, the bluing job on this gun is just poor. Thick and nasty, kinda like Russian capture stuff . . . but not quite THAT nasty

policeluger - I'll give you a call tomorrow as well. Let me know what time is best.

FWIW: Breech block GT sent was/is in fine shape. I really think now after all this that this must have been made to display and not shoot. No way someone could do this horrible of a job and expect it to work.

- WOT

[G.T.]

Call me at my work number anytime between 8:00 am and 10:00 am, after 12:00.. call me at home... Gott'a get my two good hours in! ... Best to you, til...lat'r...GT

[worldoftone]

OK G.T. Got it thanks!

- WOT

[policeluger]

anytime.........

[alvin]

The barrel was not installed by Postie, was it?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

The barrel was not installed by Postie, was it?

Could have been...And I could have filed down the serial with a wood rasp...and glued the sight base on with Elmer's Glue...hacked off the rear sight with an axe...

Sure looks like my work...

Funny there's no duct tape...Must have fallen off...

[Lugerdoc]

WOT, Your barrel sure looks like one of the Numrich 16&1/4" ones. The weight of these, even without a scope mounted, does make it difficult to set up recoil system for reliable function. I do have rear toggle links available with the standard fixed rear sight in the $25 to $50 range, depending on condition. I can also supply exc new forged rear links with the 2 position Navy type sight @$500. TH PS: note to HC, good luck getting this one to functon reliably, as I've given up working on this variation.

[policeluger]

point well taken Doc, thanks...........

[alanint]

I personally would rebarrel this to Navy length and forget the whole "ubber" barrel issue..

[worldoftone]

I personally would rebarrel this to Navy length and forget the whole "ubber" barrel issue.

Am thinking that route now. Trust me there brother

Hopefully the thing was safety checked with gauges/measurements before the sale

I doubt it. The gunsmiths . . . uh I mean parts changers at the shop I bought it from never looked at it AFAIK because they couldn't tell me if it was .30 Luger or 9mm. The salesman originally thought it was a .22. DUH. I had to have them gauge it before I bought it.

Just simple parts replacement alone does not really cut it for safety.

Right. That's why I took it to a second gunsmith who is pretty darn good to have it checked before taking it to the range the second time. I suppose I need to get some gauges and learn how to check the basic stuff on these.

The barrel forearm resemembles an offering by Numerich(Gun Parts) and others(?). Always wondered if they would work at all(with such attached wood). Some have been for sale here before, and questions were asked about functionality of said barrel/forearms. Never saw a response, guess people did not know or did not wish to comment. Still looking for such comments to ponder on my own time

In my experience, that was one of the major problems. The forearm did not interfere with the function of the gun, but as more rounds were fired, it slid forward. It absolutely wouldn't stay put even after retightening. Tried it two or three times. that's when I decided to remove it.

I have not seen any early carbines with scopes on the barrels, however some later made up carbines had scope mounts on the side of the frame, thus no additional scope weight on the moving mechanism.

Yep seen this too! Makes sense to me after this experience.

The weight of the rifle scope, longish barrel, and barrel attached forearm will not do function any good; even with such mounted to a shoulder stock for stability. Just a lot of mass/weight for the mechanism to overcome.

Again correct. Once all the "stuff" i.e. weight was off the barrel, then it started working. Unfortunately the firing pin finally broke so I could not test any further.

You might ponder what one would want out of the purchase. Sounds like you got it for good now; perhaps no return?

Yep, it's mine now. As GT says, "You're learning a lot about Lugers now" and I have to agree there

Good luck with your new acquisition. Not sure if it will ever work as pictured, but one should never say never...... but this one will be a task as originally purchased. On the plus side, you have most of a Luger pistol to start with for a more thought out firearm.

Thanks! It's all good. I'll either get her working as-is but w/o a scope and forearm, or rebarrel to a shorter length and have a real good shooter.

Toggle parts on the way to GT now so we'll see how she goes in a bit. Thanks to any and all for opinions and advice. In the end I'll have something cool!

- WOT

[rolandtg]

Looks like mine. As far as I tell this is one of the Numrich 16" barrels.
I won this in the forum raffle a few months ago. I haven't fired it yet, I haven't been to the range in months. I have noticed that while the toggle closes all the way the extractor hits the end of the chamber and is pushed up slightly. I suspect that if I tried this with a standard recoil spring the added mass of the barrel might inhibit function.

One of these days I'll try it out.

[alvin]

Don't have a long barrel Luger. Assume longer the barrel, weaker the main spring? In theory, that should be the case because heavier the barrel, less recoil energy goes to the bolt, so a weaker main spring is needed.

In theory though. Does that match a real Luger? I hope theory matches reality.

[worldoftone]

Roland,

Maybe one day we'll have to hook up and take them out shootin' . . . assuming that I can get mine going with the longer barrel . . . If not, well . . . I'll still get her right at some point.

- WOT