Preservation and Protection.

[Merick]

There is a lot of information on how to refinish your guns, and it can be a satisfying thing to do. However it is seldom the right thing to do and ABSOLUTELY WILL DESTROY VALUE. I call on anyone who can to help assemble a sticky about how to preserve a specimen in good or collectible shape.

The quick version is keep it clean, keep it dry, and keep it lightly oiled. All this prevents rust. The bluing finish on guns has microscopic pits that hold oil, use just enough to keep them filled. More than that can attract dust, which attracts water, and then rust. Everybody has their own favorite gun oil, and there are entire threads about gun oil alone. Break Free CLP is pretty darn good and easy to find. But when it comes to oil, almost anything is better than nothing. Try to keep it off of the wood and leather.

To keep things dry, silica jell is useful and I'll say necessary in closed spaces. You can get it many places for many prices, but here is a hint; they sell it in bulk as cat litter additive. I scoop some into womens' knee high panty hose, tie it off and throw one into every ammo can, and a handful into a safe. Over time it gets saturated with moisture but you can dry the stuff out in an oven on LOW heat for 20 minutes every few months. (200f or less depending on what stockings you bought, ask your mom if you can use the stove first if your not sure.)

Beyond that if you have a collector that you are never going to shoot there is some stuff called renaissance wax. You can read about it and other good ideas here
http://www.thegca.org/images/Preserving.pdf
and here
http://www.nps.gov/spar/historyculture/guncare.htm

That is about all I have, if you have something to add by all means lets hear it. Lets make this thread as useful as we can.

[Imperial Arms]

Without going into long detail, I simply say 'KISS' - 'Keep it Simple...'

Firstly, I do not recommend using oils such as Break-Free, because these kinds of oils do not give enough protection to rust blue finishes. Believe it or not, rust blue on guns such as Lugers is actually - RUST - and using an oil such as Break-Free will 'loosen' the rust over time. Instead, I use a light grease such as Universal Rig Grease which has protected my guns for over 20+ years without affecting the finish.

In regards to protecting leather items, I either use saddle soap (which does not change the color of light leather) or Connelly's Hide Care (very sparingly).

For the purpose of long term storage, I place all my pistols in high quality pistol pouches and I have never had any problems, even after ten years in a safe deposit box.

Gun preservation does not need to be expensive, just sensible and careful. Seeking the advise of various knowledgeable experts in the field is a helpful way to protect your heirlooms or investments.

Enjoy,
Albert

[WehrmachtP08]

If you are looking at storing a firearm and never firing it, I would suggest a good microcrystalline wax, such as renaissance wax, which is used by museums for preserving firearms and furniture. I know that the NRA museum uses it on their firearms. I talked with one NRA museum employee who had suggested renaissance wax to preserve firearms for long term storage, so I trust his judgement.

I also found this webpage that goes into more detail about preserving firearms:

http://www.nps.gov/spar/historyculture/guncare.htm

Hope this info helps.

[Imperial Arms]

In my opinion, any substance which is added to a finish that creates a hard texture is unhealthy for a gun's finish. This is the reason why I prefer a light universal grease which can be repeatedly wiped and replaced with the same thin layer of grease.

I once received a pistol which had a hard yellowish protective coating on the barrel (I believe a type of grease starting with the letters Lan... used during the wars) and I had to use Kroil (an excellent cleaning oil) to remove it! I recommend using a grease which can allow the surfaces to 'breath'. Furthermore, if anybody handles the pistol and applies a few finger prints on the metal, simply Rig it off and the new layer of light grease gives the same protection as any wax.

Just because a museum uses a product or a certain system for care does not mean that it is the ideal. Maybe renaissance wax is good for wood surfaces, but I would not use it on the metal of any gun in my collection.

Be wise,
Albert

[SparkyRock]

I have been told by many that saddle soap dries out leather and is not the thing to use on old holsters.

Opinions?

[alvin]

Where to find the cosmoline Yugoslavian used on their rifles? Those guns have been stored in the past 60 years without any sign of patina, let alone rust. They overdid it soaking the stock as well. If done appropriately, it should protect metal finish well. Not pretty but definitely works though I have one sample in "Off Topic Firearms" column. They did excellent preservative job in cheap way. Best of all, it does dry in short period of time.

[Merick]

brownells has something called "rust veto" in a little paint can that "does the job of cosmoline". The only draw backs to cosmoline it is a mess and it smells. It can be difficult to get out of wood too. But if I had to put something away for 30 years, cosmoline (or "rust veto") is it.

For leather I have heard Connelly's hide care talked about positively too. I would leave the saddle soap alone unless I was trying to clean a holster perhaps.
Here is a thread on mildew in leather with some good info.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...hlight=freezer

The only problem I have with RIG grease is that they don't make it any more.

Also get a "gunsmith" screwdriver to use on the grip screws. It is very hard to bugger a screw with one that fits properly. You will kick yourself for not doing this earlier if you haven't already.

All the comments and ideas have been great. Men long to create or collect beauty, and being some of us barely got through high school shop, it is better for us to work on keeping a luger in good shape than trying to "improve" it.

[WehrmachtP08]

Albert,

The whole point of applying anything to the exterior of a firearm when storing it is to prevent oxygen from comming in contact with the metal. Oils and greases are used to prevent things such as hand oils and moisture from speeding up the process of oxidation, which is also known as rusing. If what you are putting on your firearms is allowing the surface to 'breath,' then the potential for oxodation is inevidable. While oils and greases can protect the surface of a firearm in the short term, most should be reapplied every month to every year as oils can get wiped off and grease eventually dries and cracks. The perfect storage of a firearm would be to have it in an environment with absolutely no moisture inside of a vaccum, where oxygen is not present. If you are looking for long term storage of a historic firearm, you want to make sure that oxygen does not come in contact with the metal at all, because even being exposed to oxygen will cause it to rust. In addition to this, wax is not a hard surface, but is, in fact, flexible, and is capable of expanding with metal in heat changes while creating a seal around the metal preventing external factors such as moisture or skin oils from reaching the metal finish.

[LSP972]

Originally Posted by Merick

..being some of us barely got through high school shop, it is better for us to work on keeping a luger in good shape than trying to "improve" it.

LOL.

What a wonderfully polite way of saying "Don't butcher your Luger, dummy!"

Well said.

[Imperial Arms]

Wehrmacht,

I agree with your theorical explanation how to prevent rust occurring on metal by means of 'sealing' the surface and not allowing oxygen to be present, however, I have found that the most practical way to preserve guns (and to enjoy them as well) is to occasionally wipe down the metal surfaces with a Rig-Rag which applies a thin layer of Rig grease which will not harden, dry or crack - it gives very good protection for short or long term storage which I vouch from 25+ years of use. Furthermore, I minimize the handling of my guns and if I happen to accidently touch the metal, I simply pull the Rig-Rag and remove the finger print. I do not believe going to extremes by using any form of a wax on a delicate finish.

Thank you for refreshing my mind regarding the exact spelling for Cosmoline. Back in the days, it was probably rated the best product around for protection, but it is a 'bitch' to remove. I prefer a product which can be 'wipe on - wipe off' and at the same time giving excellent protection. Oils are not able to provide this level of protection and I continue to use Rig Grease. Rig Grease is still being sold in the US.

In regards to leather care, saddle soap does not dry out leather - it contains a variety of light natural oils, whereas Connolly's (which I use sparingly on occasion) contains meth spirit which I cannot determine if it is good for leather even if it helps in the absorption of the other elements in the cream and afterwards evaporates from the leather (so they say).

Albert

[Sieger]

Hi All:

I don't know where you other folks live, but I live in Florida, about a 1/4 mile from the Gulf of Mexico. That, gentlemen, is a perfect climate to rust a gun! The house is "open" approximatley 4 months per year, with it being under airconditioning the rest of the year.

I've stored all of my firearms, both rust blued and salt blued in the following way for the last 40 years and have never had a hint of a problem with oxidation (either rust or discoloring) of any kind.

After an thorough initial clean-up with WD-40, using a good stiff tooth brush to remove surface oxidation, dried grease, etc., I thoroughly wipe the entire firearm down (a thick coat)with regular old Hoppies No. 9 Gun Oil (in the plastic orange squeeze bottle) and reassemble.

The firearm is then retired to one of the fabric Bore Stores Silicone Impregnated Cases for long-term storage. About once a year, if I havent fired the firearm in the interum, I'll examine and reoil the firearm as necessary.

Back in August of 1968, I bought a little tub of R.I.G. and applied it to my newly purchased 1909 Argentine Mauser Rifle, in new condition. After about 3 months or so, the R.I.G. had dried and the finish of the rifle had discolored under it, the "in the white" action had actually started to show surface rust!! It took me more than a little effort to restore the pristine finish to that rifle, AND I NEVER, EVER USED R.I.G. ON ANY OF MY OTHER FIREARMS!!!

Just my two cents worth.

Sieger

PS: John, I still can't figure out how to use the spell checker since you updated the site months ago!

[WehrmachtP08]

Albert,

My 'theoretical' explaination is actually what is taught in the Mechanical Engineering courses at the United States Military Academy. I am currently studying Mechanical Engineering, specifically in the area of materials, where we learn all about oxidation and the way metal reacts to heat, moisture, oxygen etc. I agree with you that if you are going to be handling your firearm or fireing the weapon, you will want to use grease or oils. I should have made it more clear that my recommendation was for long term storage (even longer than cosmoline) with minimal handling.

[lboos]

There must be a thousand diff. opin's on how to protect your firearm's , The problem is that none of us will be around to see which one worked the best, except me of course!---I've got civil war, Indian war,WW-2, Kore'an war, viet-nam era weapons, I don't fire them any more, about once a mounth i spray them with WD-40 and wipe them with an ole clean T-shirt, I can't see any change in them over the years [might be my eye's] No need to spend a lot of money on exotic oil's, when most of them are a spin off of WD-40 any way, IMHO. lboos.

[Mauser720]

Iboos -

According to several gunsmiths who do work for me, WD-40 should not be used on internal pistol parts since it will thicken over time. But it is good to know that you have had good experience using it to preserve external finishes.

Thanks,

Mauser720 - Ron

[Merick]

I don't want to drag up the wd-40 argument again. But I will say this, I would prefer a gun that was treated regularly with wd-40 to one that was not cared for at all. I think we can all agree on that.

[MFC]

Merick, Now you've done it.
Just to set the record straight about WD-40.
It was developed by the US government for use in missile silos.
WD= water displacement
40= formula #40
Main ingredient= fish oil... which is why it hardens over time as the solvents dissapate. It's actually a great preservative, but when used on firearms it needs to be applied frequently , which dissolves the old oil and adds fresh solvents/oil.

[lboos]

The Museum of History here in Ga. where i do vol. work when needed, has a very large collection of fire arms from before the civil war untill now, They use KIWI shoe polish, neutral wax on the ext. They look great now, and always have for many year's.
From all that i've heard, I think it all work's fine, Just diff. opin's.

[humboldtdan]

wd-40 is fish oil which is why its great to spray on your bait to increase salmon harvest. I know off topic, but interesting.