Combo cleaning rod and oiler

Ice · 03-07-2009, 07:23 PM

Another artifact I found is a combo cleaning rod and oiler. I think it may be for a Portuguese Luger. Length of the cleaning rod part is 7". Its only mark is "KK 10" in a circle on the bottom of the oil container part. Its actually in better condition than the photos show. You see assorted gunk from years past with some brown gunk; may be rust - I dunno. Any help you could offer with identification and possible value would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Charlie

wlyon · 03-07-2009, 07:43 PM

Charlie
You are correct it is Portuguese. They sell for $150-$200.Another one which goes with the Dutch lugers sells for considerably more. Looks like a nice one. These have also been reproduced but they are obvious. Bill

Ice · 03-07-2009, 07:52 PM

Thanks, Bill. I'm glad you think it may be original. Any tips on how to identify a repro?

Charlie

LU1900 · 03-07-2009, 08:29 PM

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lugerholsterrepair · 03-07-2009, 08:39 PM

Charlie..I have my doubts about the originality of this rod. The screw on cap...It should be knurled. It is not. You will notice the edges only go in a spiral..there is no knurled crosshatching. Me no like.

One other thing, check where the rod inserts into the barrel shaft. Is it threaded in and can be unscrewed? It looks like it from your photo..That would be another bad indicator.

Jerry Burney

LU1900 · 03-07-2009, 08:48 PM

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MFC · 03-08-2009, 01:47 AM

Jerry,
Your correct about the early commercial rods, but I think this one is correct for the GNR, which was made years later. They are all steel, rod and oiler. Rod screws into oiler. No cross hatching on the lid. I could easily be wrong but I haven't seen another type for the GNR.

Vlim · 03-08-2009, 07:15 AM

Here's a specimen of the earlier version.

Still some grease inside which really, really smells like old grease

Ice · 03-08-2009, 10:13 AM

Does anyone have a later specimen like mine purports to be so we can compare. I'll be happy to provide additional and hopefully better photos if you like.

Vlim, you make beautiful photos. Do you use a light box?

Charlie

Vlim · 03-08-2009, 10:47 AM

Charlie, nope, I cheat and use a cheap HP Scanjet 3800 flatbed scanner

lugerholsterrepair · 03-08-2009, 05:06 PM

Gentlemen, I admit I am not aware of every type of rod made but I have taken pains to study these over many years.
These rods were firmly affixed to the barrels..there is no reason for them to be screwed in. The screwed in type are known fakes and as such they break off very easily at the threaded end. This is NOT the type of junk the Germans would make or did make.

Again..there is no reason for them to be screwed in. If it were to become unscrewed in normal use it could and would.. slip out of the rod sleeve and be lost.
They break off very easily and a second reason this is a bad engineering solution to a problem that dosen't exist.

The second problem I see with this rod is the lack of knurling on the end cap. This spiraled end cap could concieveably slice your fingers if it were stuck with this type of milling on it.
The crosshatching found on original rods was the norm for the times these were made. This was an era of NO shortcuts and hundreds of thousands of machine tools had the crosshatching to better the grip on them. What other tool have you ever seen that has this spiral cut besides these fake rods? None...Because it's so far out of the norm to be unheard of.
As for the stamp on the end...Many items are stamped with spurious stamps. When you look at the whole picture you have to come to the conclusion that this must be one...

Jerry Burney

LU1900 · 03-08-2009, 09:25 PM

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MFC · 03-09-2009, 12:04 AM

Jerry,
I stand corrected. I've only seen rods like Charlie's that were described as being original for the GNR. There are obviously a lot of these going around.
Here's another to add to the bunch. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=124370300

Patrice,
Your all steel rod has knurling (cross hatched) on the lid. Does the rod screw into the oiler? This rod may be what the fakers are trying to duplicate.

LU1900 · 03-09-2009, 10:00 AM

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MFC · 03-09-2009, 11:56 PM

Patrice,
Thank you. Yours is probably the only original one for a GNR I'll ever see.

03-07-2009, 07:23 PM	#1
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Combo cleaning rod and oiler Another artifact I found is a combo cleaning rod and oiler. I think it may be for a Portuguese Luger. Length of the cleaning rod part is 7". Its only mark is "KK 10" in a circle on the bottom of the oil container part. Its actually in better condition than the photos show. You see assorted gunk from years past with some brown gunk; may be rust - I dunno. Any help you could offer with identification and possible value would be appreciated. Many thanks Charlie

03-07-2009, 07:43 PM	#2
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	Charlie You are correct it is Portuguese. They sell for $150-$200.Another one which goes with the Dutch lugers sells for considerably more. Looks like a nice one. These have also been reproduced but they are obvious. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-07-2009, 08:29 PM	#4
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-07-2009, 08:39 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Charlie..I have my doubts about the originality of this rod. The screw on cap...It should be knurled. It is not. You will notice the edges only go in a spiral..there is no knurled crosshatching. Me no like. One other thing, check where the rod inserts into the barrel shaft. Is it threaded in and can be unscrewed? It looks like it from your photo..That would be another bad indicator. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-07-2009, 08:48 PM	#6
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-07-2009, 07:52 PM	#3
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Thanks, Bill. I'm glad you think it may be original. Any tips on how to identify a repro? Charlie

03-08-2009, 01:47 AM	#7
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Jerry, Your correct about the early commercial rods, but I think this one is correct for the GNR, which was made years later. They are all steel, rod and oiler. Rod screws into oiler. No cross hatching on the lid. I could easily be wrong but I haven't seen another type for the GNR. __________________ Mike C.

03-08-2009, 07:15 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Here's a specimen of the earlier version. Still some grease inside which really, really smells like old grease Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

03-08-2009, 10:13 AM	#9
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Does anyone have a later specimen like mine purports to be so we can compare. I'll be happy to provide additional and hopefully better photos if you like. Vlim, you make beautiful photos. Do you use a light box? Charlie

03-08-2009, 10:47 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Charlie, nope, I cheat and use a cheap HP Scanjet 3800 flatbed scanner

03-08-2009, 05:06 PM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Gentlemen, I admit I am not aware of every type of rod made but I have taken pains to study these over many years. These rods were firmly affixed to the barrels..there is no reason for them to be screwed in. The screwed in type are known fakes and as such they break off very easily at the threaded end. This is NOT the type of junk the Germans would make or did make. Again..there is no reason for them to be screwed in. If it were to become unscrewed in normal use it could and would.. slip out of the rod sleeve and be lost. They break off very easily and a second reason this is a bad engineering solution to a problem that dosen't exist. The second problem I see with this rod is the lack of knurling on the end cap. This spiraled end cap could concieveably slice your fingers if it were stuck with this type of milling on it. The crosshatching found on original rods was the norm for the times these were made. This was an era of NO shortcuts and hundreds of thousands of machine tools had the crosshatching to better the grip on them. What other tool have you ever seen that has this spiral cut besides these fake rods? None...Because it's so far out of the norm to be unheard of. As for the stamp on the end...Many items are stamped with spurious stamps. When you look at the whole picture you have to come to the conclusion that this must be one... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-08-2009, 09:25 PM	#12
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-09-2009, 12:04 AM	#13
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Jerry, I stand corrected. I've only seen rods like Charlie's that were described as being original for the GNR. There are obviously a lot of these going around. Here's another to add to the bunch. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=124370300 Patrice, Your all steel rod has knurling (cross hatched) on the lid. Does the rod screw into the oiler? This rod may be what the fakers are trying to duplicate. __________________ Mike C.

03-09-2009, 10:00 AM	#14
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-09-2009, 11:56 PM	#15
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Patrice, Thank you. Yours is probably the only original one for a GNR I'll ever see. __________________ Mike C.