1916 DWM side plate

A.Mifsin · 11-09-2008, 05:24 AM

Hi All, I have this 1916 DWM Luger which has its barrel changed to a 7.65 caliber, but it is original bluing and all matching as far as I know because the side plate is different. The raised part of the side plate is checkered (like Knurling).
Any comments or opinion on this side plate is much appreciated.

Alf.

A.Mifsin · 11-12-2008, 07:35 AM

It seems that I have a prototype side plate

Alf

Lugerdoc · 11-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Alf, Your side plate appears to be an original with some pitting on the raised portion. It's your breech block (front part of toggle assy) that is unusual: It appears to be higher than normal at top rear, perhaps repaired, and your front "bead" sight is a replacement that was quite popular during the first half of the 1900s. TH

A.Mifsin · 11-12-2008, 12:19 PM

TH, I appreciate your reply, thank you. I do not wish to question your judgment regarding the pitting on the side plate, but to me it kooks too uniform for that, it is more like knurling to me ( I think ).
The confusing part is that the numbers are matching, clean and they do match with the rest of the gun regarding the font and size.

Alf

Ron Wood · 11-12-2008, 12:59 PM

Alf,
At first I thought the marking might have been made by a tool, such as pliers or a vise. But the knurling is too uniform and looks like it was done deliberately. Very interesting and I have no idea why it would be done.

A.Mifsin · 11-12-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Wood
Alf,
At first I thought the marking might have been made by a tool, such as pliers or a vise. But the knurling is too uniform and looks like it was done deliberately. Very interesting and I have no idea why it would be done.

Same here

Alf

John Sabato · 11-12-2008, 03:34 PM

I have never seen checkering on the sideplate before. This "looks" old enough that it may have happened at or near the time it left the factory. It looks smaller, but out of curiosity, how does the size and pattern of the checkering on the sideplate compare to the magazine release button, the takedown lever, and the toggles? Could this be factory checkering?

ken d · 11-12-2008, 04:32 PM

Has the gun been deactivated. Suspicious cut in the bolt/toggle interface.

Regards Ken D

Karl · 11-12-2008, 06:07 PM

Alf,

I suggest the possibility that this gun was "sporterized" by a competent craftsman. There is a channel cut through the forward toggle and extractor, presumably to provide a clear sight picture to the added bead front sight. Is the rear sight modified? Perhaps it is cut lower to compensate for the low point of aim? Then there is the added .30 Luger barrel. Finally the checkered side plate. I suggest that this may have been done to obscure localized pitting on an otherwise clean gun. There appear to be pitts on some of the high spots. KFS

A.Mifsin · 11-13-2008, 01:36 AM

John, the side plate checkering is smaller then the rest, but very neat and uniform made. If this is factory checkering ?..

Ken D, no, the pistols has never been deactivated for sure.

Karl, I think you are on the right track, except that the side plate checkering was not done because of pitting because under neath is clean as far as I can see. The rear sight is not modified and when you aim the gun, the channel in the toggle does not seems the interferes with the sighting, so I do not know why it was done.

Thank you guys for your input.

Alf.

A.Mifsin · 11-13-2008, 01:37 AM

another photo

A.Mifsin · 11-13-2008, 01:38 AM

toggle chanel

A.Mifsin · 11-13-2008, 01:41 AM

sight photo

tenbears · 11-13-2008, 09:15 PM

I have never seen a toggle channel milled out like this one before. Seems to me this would only weaken the structural integrity of the toggle.

Ron Smith · 11-14-2008, 09:16 AM

Alf,

This is a very intriguing piece. And obviously done by a very skilled artisan. Checkering that fine and uniform would take great skill. Is the front of the front sight base checkered also?

Ron

A.Mifsin · 11-14-2008, 02:22 PM

Here is the front of the front sight

Alf

John Sabato · 11-14-2008, 02:25 PM

Alf, is the front sight base actually part of the muzzle band or has it been attached by some means such as silver solder?

A.Mifsin · 11-14-2008, 02:53 PM

John, as I best as I can see, it is part of the barrel, if it is not than it is a hell of a job.

Alf

Lugerdoc · 11-15-2008, 10:06 AM

Alf, Thanks for the great photos. I now can see the checkering on the sideplate. I have the ideal mag for your luger: Aluminum bottom #8489o E/63 with the sides of the bottom piece finely checkered. Some folks have more talent than sense. Lugerdoc

drbuster · 11-15-2008, 12:23 PM

My guess it that the checkering on the side plate "high spot" was done to avoid the inevitable wear to the blue on this area from holstering.

11-09-2008, 05:24 AM	#1
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	1916 DWM side plate Hi All, I have this 1916 DWM Luger which has its barrel changed to a 7.65 caliber, but it is original bluing and all matching as far as I know because the side plate is different. The raised part of the side plate is checkered (like Knurling). Any comments or opinion on this side plate is much appreciated. Alf. Attached Images __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-12-2008, 07:35 AM	#2
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	It seems that I have a prototype side plate Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-12-2008, 10:20 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Alf, Your side plate appears to be an original with some pitting on the raised portion. It's your breech block (front part of toggle assy) that is unusual: It appears to be higher than normal at top rear, perhaps repaired, and your front "bead" sight is a replacement that was quite popular during the first half of the 1900s. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-12-2008, 12:19 PM	#4
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	TH, I appreciate your reply, thank you. I do not wish to question your judgment regarding the pitting on the side plate, but to me it kooks too uniform for that, it is more like knurling to me ( I think ). The confusing part is that the numbers are matching, clean and they do match with the rest of the gun regarding the font and size. Alf Attached Images __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-12-2008, 12:59 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	Alf, At first I thought the marking might have been made by a tool, such as pliers or a vise. But the knurling is too uniform and looks like it was done deliberately. Very interesting and I have no idea why it would be done. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-12-2008, 03:34 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I have never seen checkering on the sideplate before. This "looks" old enough that it may have happened at or near the time it left the factory. It looks smaller, but out of curiosity, how does the size and pattern of the checkering on the sideplate compare to the magazine release button, the takedown lever, and the toggles? Could this be factory checkering? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-12-2008, 04:32 PM	#8
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	Has the gun been deactivated. Suspicious cut in the bolt/toggle interface. Regards Ken D

11-12-2008, 06:07 PM	#9
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 530 Thanks: 0 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	Alf, I suggest the possibility that this gun was "sporterized" by a competent craftsman. There is a channel cut through the forward toggle and extractor, presumably to provide a clear sight picture to the added bead front sight. Is the rear sight modified? Perhaps it is cut lower to compensate for the low point of aim? Then there is the added .30 Luger barrel. Finally the checkered side plate. I suggest that this may have been done to obscure localized pitting on an otherwise clean gun. There appear to be pitts on some of the high spots. KFS

11-13-2008, 01:36 AM	#10
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	John, the side plate checkering is smaller then the rest, but very neat and uniform made. If this is factory checkering ?.. Ken D, no, the pistols has never been deactivated for sure. Karl, I think you are on the right track, except that the side plate checkering was not done because of pitting because under neath is clean as far as I can see. The rear sight is not modified and when you aim the gun, the channel in the toggle does not seems the interferes with the sighting, so I do not know why it was done. Thank you guys for your input. Alf. Attached Images __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-13-2008, 01:37 AM	#11
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	another photo Attached Thumbnails __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-13-2008, 01:38 AM	#12
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	toggle chanel Attached Thumbnails __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-13-2008, 01:41 AM	#13
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	sight photo Attached Thumbnails __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-13-2008, 09:15 PM	#14
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	I have never seen a toggle channel milled out like this one before. Seems to me this would only weaken the structural integrity of the toggle.

11-14-2008, 09:16 AM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Alf, This is a very intriguing piece. And obviously done by a very skilled artisan. Checkering that fine and uniform would take great skill. Is the front of the front sight base checkered also? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

11-14-2008, 02:22 PM	#16
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Here is the front of the front sight Alf Attached Thumbnails __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-14-2008, 02:25 PM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Alf, is the front sight base actually part of the muzzle band or has it been attached by some means such as silver solder? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-14-2008, 02:53 PM	#18
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	John, as I best as I can see, it is part of the barrel, if it is not than it is a hell of a job. Alf Attached Images __________________ I prefer a Luger

11-15-2008, 10:06 AM	#19
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Alf, Thanks for the great photos. I now can see the checkering on the sideplate. I have the ideal mag for your luger: Aluminum bottom #8489o E/63 with the sides of the bottom piece finely checkered. Some folks have more talent than sense. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-15-2008, 12:23 PM	#20
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	My guess it that the checkering on the side plate "high spot" was done to avoid the inevitable wear to the blue on this area from holstering.