Fulfillment and death of the Constitution.

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 10:56 AM

I simply have to say this somewhere, to someone...

Never in my life have I had such mixed emotions.

I am overjoyed and proud of my country for finally driving a stake through the heart of the hideous monster that is racism.

At the same time I am deeply troubled by the knowledge that this very same event also signals the near and certain end of the last vestiges of liberty on Earth. The likes of Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Shumer now face no obstacles whatsoever in their life-long desire to shred what little remains of the Constitution and Bill of Rights and make perpetual tax slaves of us all in their utopian people's state.

God help us all.

Larrys Lugers · 11-05-2008, 11:39 AM

Amen to that David.

MikeP · 11-05-2008, 11:45 AM

We in a lot of trouble, boys.

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 11:54 AM

How could I forget to mention the king of the utopians and the steal from the poor to give to the poor philosophy, Ted Kennedy.

Rod WMG · 11-05-2008, 11:58 AM

Racism definitely did not die. Many voted for Obama simply because he was black, which is racism as surely as it is for people to vote blindly for whites. I've noticed that black owned businesses and Hispanic owned ones tend to have a vast majority of workers of their own race.

I've come from a time when "Jim Crow" existed to today and I'm very glad things are somewhat better, but the patient is far from cured.

And, though I'm saddened and subdued by the election results, I'm still hopeful that true conservatives will exert themselves and thwart more socialistic trends.

America hasn't the heart it has had in the past, the will to endure and persevere. The men and women of WWII, for example, had to overcome and, with God's help did. With God's help this generation can turn things around too.

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 01:12 PM

Rod, I wish I had your optimism, but I know that all governments regardless of initial form eventually deteriorate to a state of totalitarianism, at which point revolution is the only solution. This is the one and only reason the founding fathers wanted to make doubly certain that when the time came, we would still possess the guns necessary to send the scoundrels to their final reward (though I have a strong preference for the gallows).

However that is not going to happen this time. We had our chance and let it slip away. Never before in history has a government had weapons that vastly outperform anything to which the citizens have access or could possibly hope to acquire, or has there been the technology for a system of communication and surveillance so complete that not a single trip to the bathroom or quiet comment among friends cannot be overheard and reported.

The national guard has been "nationalized", the communication system compromised, the laws written and passed to allow access to everything we think, say, do and own, freedom of speech is a thing of the past, posse comitatus has been nullified and habeus corpus suspended, massive laws that obviously took weeks to write abrogating large parts of the bill of rights nonetheless somehow magically appeared in congress literally overnight, the groundwork has been laid to seize even the comparatively harmless few weapons we are still allowed to own and the will of both the elected and the electorate to change this once free nation into a totalitarian socialist state is in place.

The founding fathers of this country warned us to be vigilant and also warned that the day we began allowing our politicians to bribe us with our own money would be the beginning of the end for liberty. Now we actually allow the politicians to go so absurdly far as to take our money by force so that they can give it to wealthy private corporations whose profits are too low for their liking; and to issue bills of credit (remember that phrase from the Constitution; you know, the part that says the government may never issue them) so that they can 'tax' us secretly and any time they like by simply issuing more bills of credit. (Go ahead; ask a thousand Americans what a bill of credit is and why the government is prohibited from issuing them. Not one in a thousand will know the answer or that bills of credit are what fill his wallet.)

The greatest irony is that the largest steps toward the loss of our freedom were taken not by the democrats who openly declare their hatred of liberty and love of socialism but by the party we trusted and elected NOT to do those things and by the greatest moron in the history of public office. And the biggest moron of all is me, because I voted for the stupid sonofabitch, TWICE!

Thanks to George Bush and Dick Cheney all the laws, materials and means to end freedom are in place. And also thanks to them, the people who WANT to end freedom are now in a position to do so.

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 01:36 PM

Rod,

I am sure there are still plenty of racists left in America, but history will show beyond doubt that yesterday, racism in America died.

Conny · 11-05-2008, 03:26 PM

Very well said David. I've thought the exact same thing about a year ago. It is all coming together for the "elite" politicians who don't want to give up ower now.

Rod WMG · 11-05-2008, 04:11 PM

David, while we don't see eye to eye on everything, we do on many things.

Those who think they can individually resist the military and law enforcement weapons available, and "weapons" include the listening devices, etc. at their disposal, are sadly mistaken. The world is a vastly different place now than even when I was a teen. Power misused is a terrible thing and the capacity to use power is a real invitation to misuse it.

But, remember, this nation has been tested in many ways in the past, though not necessarily in the same manner. Aaron Burr tried to steal the presidency from Jefferson when he ran for VP, but got the same number of electoral votes through a slip up as Jefferson. Jefferson eventually was declared the winner, but it was a true Constitutional crisis. Burr later tried to split the U. S. in his Conspiracy which was a real threat also. Many times prior to the Civil War states, both north and south, threatened to secede, beginning not long after the formation of the Union. And of course, there was the awful War Between the States. I could go on, but you get the idea. Our nation has been sorely tested numerous times.

I'm really not that optimistic about things as they stand. I just trust that God, whom the Bible says "knows the end from the beginning," does so because He has planned all things and ordained them for His sovereign purpose. If it is His will that the U. S. goes down the tubes, it will. If that is not His will, we'll survive.

As a Christian I believe we've done countless things as a nation that are a stench in His nostrils. How long He'll be patient with us while giving us a chance to repent remains to be seen.

Don M · 11-05-2008, 04:25 PM

"America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law! "

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 04:28 PM

Rod, let's not any of us hold our breath.

There is one very peculiar ray of hope. I have lived in South America and traveled in other Latin American countries. They all have one thing in common...

They already are where we are going. They have bureaucratic, top-heavy, watch and control everything you do, nanny-state, socialist governments. But because the governments are so enormous, corrupt and impossible to control, neither can they any longer control the people to any great degree. As a result, many of these Latin countries actually have more freedom than we do, not by design, but by default! Of course, everyone is a criminal, all the time (just like us), but they get caught far less often.

Secretly, it is my fervent hope to die in a blazing gun battle with zealous upholders of the new world order, rabidly bent on stopping me at all costs from committing some heinous offense against society's sensibilities that was perfectly legal, just the day before!

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 04:30 PM

Don,
Who said that? And how can we have it tattood on the forehead of every politician?

RichSr · 11-05-2008, 06:03 PM

David,

Second verse of:
America the Beautiful
Words by Katharine Lee Bates,
Melody by Samuel Ward

davidkachel · 11-05-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichSr
David,

Second verse of:
America the Beautiful
Words by Katharine Lee Bates,
Melody by Samuel Ward

Ahem, he said, red faced and slinking out of the room!

DonWallbaum · 11-12-2008, 04:13 PM

Hmmm... newbie here, and I have to offer the distaff opinion. Seems to me that the current holder of the office is the one responsible for two illegal wars, driving the economy into the tank and nationalizing the bank and financial services industry, and is going to make a good run at nationalizing the Detroit auto companies.

Even the Democrats in their wildest moments had never contemplated actions so sweeping, and without restrictions.

Seems to me, _anything_ we get in Jan. is better than what we have now.

Don

davidkachel · 11-12-2008, 04:18 PM

DonWallbaum,

What we have now IS a democrat. He's just masquerading as a Republican. W and Cheney both admit to being Neocons. Google neocon and prepare to need a stiff drink.

DonWallbaum · 11-12-2008, 04:42 PM

Hi David...

Oh, I am well aware that neocons are born-again Liberals with a messianic vision. My objection has always been that Cheney had the brains and the ... force of nature ... to push his agenda, and Bush had neither the intelligence or desire to do anything to moderate his desires.

I have not read anything that indicates that Bush has any curiosity or interest outside of his immediate interests, he does not query staff or Cabinet for alternatives, rather he is happy to announce fait accomplis and go off to the gym.

Goverment by bumper sticker may seem attractive during election cycles, but we have all seen the outcome.

Don

11-05-2008, 10:56 AM	#1
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Fulfillment and death of the Constitution. I simply have to say this somewhere, to someone... Never in my life have I had such mixed emotions. I am overjoyed and proud of my country for finally driving a stake through the heart of the hideous monster that is racism. At the same time I am deeply troubled by the knowledge that this very same event also signals the near and certain end of the last vestiges of liberty on Earth. The likes of Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Shumer now face no obstacles whatsoever in their life-long desire to shred what little remains of the Constitution and Bill of Rights and make perpetual tax slaves of us all in their utopian people's state. God help us all. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 11:39 AM	#2
Larrys Lugers User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ogden Utah Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Amen to that David. __________________ Larrys Lugers

11-05-2008, 11:54 AM	#4
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	How could I forget to mention the king of the utopians and the steal from the poor to give to the poor philosophy, Ted Kennedy. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 01:12 PM	#6
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Rod, I wish I had your optimism, but I know that all governments regardless of initial form eventually deteriorate to a state of totalitarianism, at which point revolution is the only solution. This is the one and only reason the founding fathers wanted to make doubly certain that when the time came, we would still possess the guns necessary to send the scoundrels to their final reward (though I have a strong preference for the gallows). However that is not going to happen this time. We had our chance and let it slip away. Never before in history has a government had weapons that vastly outperform anything to which the citizens have access or could possibly hope to acquire, or has there been the technology for a system of communication and surveillance so complete that not a single trip to the bathroom or quiet comment among friends cannot be overheard and reported. The national guard has been "nationalized", the communication system compromised, the laws written and passed to allow access to everything we think, say, do and own, freedom of speech is a thing of the past, posse comitatus has been nullified and habeus corpus suspended, massive laws that obviously took weeks to write abrogating large parts of the bill of rights nonetheless somehow magically appeared in congress literally overnight, the groundwork has been laid to seize even the comparatively harmless few weapons we are still allowed to own and the will of both the elected and the electorate to change this once free nation into a totalitarian socialist state is in place. The founding fathers of this country warned us to be vigilant and also warned that the day we began allowing our politicians to bribe us with our own money would be the beginning of the end for liberty. Now we actually allow the politicians to go so absurdly far as to take our money by force so that they can give it to wealthy private corporations whose profits are too low for their liking; and to issue bills of credit (remember that phrase from the Constitution; you know, the part that says the government may never issue them) so that they can 'tax' us secretly and any time they like by simply issuing more bills of credit. (Go ahead; ask a thousand Americans what a bill of credit is and why the government is prohibited from issuing them. Not one in a thousand will know the answer or that bills of credit are what fill his wallet.) The greatest irony is that the largest steps toward the loss of our freedom were taken not by the democrats who openly declare their hatred of liberty and love of socialism but by the party we trusted and elected NOT to do those things and by the greatest moron in the history of public office. And the biggest moron of all is me, because I voted for the stupid sonofabitch, TWICE! Thanks to George Bush and Dick Cheney all the laws, materials and means to end freedom are in place. And also thanks to them, the people who WANT to end freedom are now in a position to do so. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 01:36 PM	#7
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Rod, I am sure there are still plenty of racists left in America, but history will show beyond doubt that yesterday, racism in America died. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 11:45 AM	#3
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	We in a lot of trouble, boys.

11-05-2008, 11:58 AM	#5
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Racism definitely did not die. Many voted for Obama simply because he was black, which is racism as surely as it is for people to vote blindly for whites. I've noticed that black owned businesses and Hispanic owned ones tend to have a vast majority of workers of their own race. I've come from a time when "Jim Crow" existed to today and I'm very glad things are somewhat better, but the patient is far from cured. And, though I'm saddened and subdued by the election results, I'm still hopeful that true conservatives will exert themselves and thwart more socialistic trends. America hasn't the heart it has had in the past, the will to endure and persevere. The men and women of WWII, for example, had to overcome and, with God's help did. With God's help this generation can turn things around too.

11-05-2008, 03:26 PM	#8
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Very well said David. I've thought the exact same thing about a year ago. It is all coming together for the "elite" politicians who don't want to give up ower now. __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

11-05-2008, 04:11 PM	#9
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	David, while we don't see eye to eye on everything, we do on many things. Those who think they can individually resist the military and law enforcement weapons available, and "weapons" include the listening devices, etc. at their disposal, are sadly mistaken. The world is a vastly different place now than even when I was a teen. Power misused is a terrible thing and the capacity to use power is a real invitation to misuse it. But, remember, this nation has been tested in many ways in the past, though not necessarily in the same manner. Aaron Burr tried to steal the presidency from Jefferson when he ran for VP, but got the same number of electoral votes through a slip up as Jefferson. Jefferson eventually was declared the winner, but it was a true Constitutional crisis. Burr later tried to split the U. S. in his Conspiracy which was a real threat also. Many times prior to the Civil War states, both north and south, threatened to secede, beginning not long after the formation of the Union. And of course, there was the awful War Between the States. I could go on, but you get the idea. Our nation has been sorely tested numerous times. I'm really not that optimistic about things as they stand. I just trust that God, whom the Bible says "knows the end from the beginning," does so because He has planned all things and ordained them for His sovereign purpose. If it is His will that the U. S. goes down the tubes, it will. If that is not His will, we'll survive. As a Christian I believe we've done countless things as a nation that are a stench in His nostrils. How long He'll be patient with us while giving us a chance to repent remains to be seen.

11-05-2008, 04:25 PM	#10
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	"America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law! " __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

11-05-2008, 04:28 PM	#11
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Rod, let's not any of us hold our breath. There is one very peculiar ray of hope. I have lived in South America and traveled in other Latin American countries. They all have one thing in common... They already are where we are going. They have bureaucratic, top-heavy, watch and control everything you do, nanny-state, socialist governments. But because the governments are so enormous, corrupt and impossible to control, neither can they any longer control the people to any great degree. As a result, many of these Latin countries actually have more freedom than we do, not by design, but by default! Of course, everyone is a criminal, all the time (just like us), but they get caught far less often. Secretly, it is my fervent hope to die in a blazing gun battle with zealous upholders of the new world order, rabidly bent on stopping me at all costs from committing some heinous offense against society's sensibilities that was perfectly legal, just the day before! __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 04:30 PM	#12
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Don, Who said that? And how can we have it tattood on the forehead of every politician? __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-05-2008, 06:03 PM	#13
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 154 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	David, Second verse of: America the Beautiful Words by Katharine Lee Bates, Melody by Samuel Ward __________________ Rich

11-12-2008, 04:13 PM	#15
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hmmm... newbie here, and I have to offer the distaff opinion. Seems to me that the current holder of the office is the one responsible for two illegal wars, driving the economy into the tank and nationalizing the bank and financial services industry, and is going to make a good run at nationalizing the Detroit auto companies. Even the Democrats in their wildest moments had never contemplated actions so sweeping, and without restrictions. Seems to me, _anything_ we get in Jan. is better than what we have now. Don

11-12-2008, 04:18 PM	#16
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	DonWallbaum, What we have now IS a democrat. He's just masquerading as a Republican. W and Cheney both admit to being Neocons. Google neocon and prepare to need a stiff drink. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-12-2008, 04:42 PM	#17
DonWallbaum User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Logan, OH USA Posts: 37 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi David... Oh, I am well aware that neocons are born-again Liberals with a messianic vision. My objection has always been that Cheney had the brains and the ... force of nature ... to push his agenda, and Bush had neither the intelligence or desire to do anything to moderate his desires. I have not read anything that indicates that Bush has any curiosity or interest outside of his immediate interests, he does not query staff or Cabinet for alternatives, rather he is happy to announce fait accomplis and go off to the gym. Goverment by bumper sticker may seem attractive during election cycles, but we have all seen the outcome. Don