Commercial Bolt SNs

Timofey · 05-11-2008, 06:20 PM

Hey All,

One more question. Where the bolts SN to the gun as well?

Thanks again.

Timofey

Timofey · 05-11-2008, 06:27 PM

I started a new thread by accident so I will add the background info here as well.

The pistol is a 1923 commercial alphabet with all the SNs matching. I would say condition is 85-90%. Blue is worn on the edge of the barrel and the side plate high points. Straw is good except for the safety which is very light. Grips hace strong checking. The Firing pin has no SN. Are the bolts supposed to have a SN as well?

Asking price is $599

Thanks for the advice.

Dwight Gruber · 05-12-2008, 02:52 AM

Tim,

The breechblocks of 1920DWM ("1923 Comercial") are found both numbered and unnumbered; firing pins are generally unnumbered. Could you please report the serial number and other details of the gun for the Commercial database and the serial numbering database?

It would be useful to see pictures of this gun. If the condition is as you report and the finish is original, its asking price is something less than half its value.

--Dwight

Lugerdoc · 05-12-2008, 09:20 AM

Commerical lugers of this period usually have a 2 digit "assembly number" on the rear of the breech block but this is not a serial and will not match. Lugerdoc

jussi16 · 05-12-2008, 02:24 PM

Hello Lugerdoc

Can you tell us more about these "assembly numbers"? Why were those used? Why not just the last two digits of the sn?

jussi

John Sabato · 05-12-2008, 03:07 PM

If I had to guess at the answer, I would say that the assembly number may have been a "batch" number... so many were produced in a batch and then placed at the assembly tables...

If a problem with a certain batch of parts were discovered by the assemblers that the batch was out of specifications, they would pull the whole batch and have them reworked or discarded.

I did much the same when I was managing a manufacturing operation years ago...

Timofey · 05-12-2008, 10:23 PM

Hey All,

Very good Info. I will go down this weekend and collect the data. I'll take my camera along as well. Dwight, I used your list, along with Lugers at Random as a reference to help document in my appraisal of the piece as I am not an expert by any means.

My gut is saying that $599 a reasonable price, but I will wait until I post some pictures for a more expert opinion.

Thanks again.

Timofey

Lugerdoc · 05-13-2008, 11:17 AM

John, I like your "batch" number explanation, as I don't have a better one. TH

Timofey · 05-13-2008, 10:24 PM

Dwight,

Info for you!

7349L
C/N up
Made in Germany right side upside down. T
he breach is stamped with a 53
the side plate has a 6 stamped on the inside
SN is on barrel and has a C/N same orientation as the SN

Timofey · 05-13-2008, 10:25 PM

The other side

Timofey · 05-13-2008, 10:26 PM

Oh it is a 30 cal

Hugh · 05-13-2008, 11:43 PM

Timofey,
By "bolt" do you mean the LOCKING BOLT or the BREECHBLOCK?????

Timofey · 05-13-2008, 11:57 PM

My bad - breech block

05-11-2008, 06:20 PM	#1
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Commercial Bolt SNs Hey All, One more question. Where the bolts SN to the gun as well? Thanks again. Timofey

05-12-2008, 09:20 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Commerical lugers of this period usually have a 2 digit "assembly number" on the rear of the breech block but this is not a serial and will not match. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-12-2008, 02:24 PM	#5
jussi16 User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 250 Thanks: 77 Thanked 52 Times in 31 Posts	Commercial Bolt SNs Hello Lugerdoc Can you tell us more about these "assembly numbers"? Why were those used? Why not just the last two digits of the sn? jussi

05-12-2008, 03:07 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	If I had to guess at the answer, I would say that the assembly number may have been a "batch" number... so many were produced in a batch and then placed at the assembly tables... If a problem with a certain batch of parts were discovered by the assemblers that the batch was out of specifications, they would pull the whole batch and have them reworked or discarded. I did much the same when I was managing a manufacturing operation years ago... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-13-2008, 11:17 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John, I like your "batch" number explanation, as I don't have a better one. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-11-2008, 06:27 PM	#2
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I started a new thread by accident so I will add the background info here as well. The pistol is a 1923 commercial alphabet with all the SNs matching. I would say condition is 85-90%. Blue is worn on the edge of the barrel and the side plate high points. Straw is good except for the safety which is very light. Grips hace strong checking. The Firing pin has no SN. Are the bolts supposed to have a SN as well? Asking price is $599 Thanks for the advice.

05-12-2008, 02:52 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Tim, The breechblocks of 1920DWM ("1923 Comercial") are found both numbered and unnumbered; firing pins are generally unnumbered. Could you please report the serial number and other details of the gun for the Commercial database and the serial numbering database? It would be useful to see pictures of this gun. If the condition is as you report and the finish is original, its asking price is something less than half its value. --Dwight

05-12-2008, 10:23 PM	#7
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey All, Very good Info. I will go down this weekend and collect the data. I'll take my camera along as well. Dwight, I used your list, along with Lugers at Random as a reference to help document in my appraisal of the piece as I am not an expert by any means. My gut is saying that $599 a reasonable price, but I will wait until I post some pictures for a more expert opinion. Thanks again. Timofey

05-13-2008, 10:24 PM	#9
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dwight, Info for you! 7349L C/N up Made in Germany right side upside down. T he breach is stamped with a 53 the side plate has a 6 stamped on the inside SN is on barrel and has a C/N same orientation as the SN Attached Images

05-13-2008, 10:25 PM	#10
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The other side Attached Images

05-13-2008, 10:26 PM	#11
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh it is a 30 cal

05-13-2008, 11:43 PM	#12
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Timofey, By "bolt" do you mean the LOCKING BOLT or the BREECHBLOCK????? __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

05-13-2008, 11:57 PM	#13
Timofey User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My bad - breech block