Troubleshooting my troubled shooter...

Gewehr 43 · 04-06-2008, 02:10 PM

I'm not sure if I should post this here or in the shooting forum, so moderators, please feel free to move if you deem necessary.

A few weeks ago, I bought a slightly mismatched DWM commercial Luger from a fellow forum member. The sear bar (the numbered part immediately behind the safety stop) and the barrel are not matching. All else appears to be matching or unnumbered. The pistol is chambered for 9mm and all tests have been with Winchester White Box ammo.

Last week, I took the pistol to the range after cleaning and lubing it thoroughly. With the reproduction mec-gar mag, it jammed virtually every round.

-Most commonly, it would jam with the next, unfired round pointing nose up jammed between the bolt face and the chamber. About half of the cartridge was out of the pistol.

-The next most common jam was where it would feed the round most of the way, but the toggle wouldn't drop into the locked position on its own. Once you tapped it down, it locked and would fire normally.

- The final variation was a jam where the bolt would skip over the rear of the next cartridge in the mag and jam once it got about halfway up the side of the cartridge. This left a small dent in the side of the case.

I figured it was probably a bad reproduction magazine, so I grabbed a 655-proofed original mag out of my G-date today and tried again. (no, the mag doesn't match the G-date) Unfortunately, the gun behaved the same with this mag as well.

The first and last jam almost seem like a bad mag, but it's unlikely (though possible) since changing mags didn't make a difference. The second jam almost seems like a weak mainspring. I'm guessing they're next to impossible to replace if need be.

I'd love to get this pistol running well because when she does shoot, she shoots like crazy.

Any and all help is appreciated.

Ron Smith · 04-06-2008, 02:31 PM

Chuck,

Get a Wolff Spring kit. I believe Tom Heller "lugerdoc" has them. It sounds like a main spring problem, but never know until you try.

Another possible problem is if you are "limp wristing" it. Lugers shoot best with a stiff wrist / firm hold.

Ron

LugerVern · 04-06-2008, 02:43 PM

If you are sure you donÃ¢??t have a worn magazine problem then the next most likely cause is ammunition make sure your using the correct weight. Next a weak main spring could be causing the trouble( like Ron says get a kit), try placing a piece of paper on the back of the frame, if too weak the paper will be cut completely through, it should only be smashed. If this is ok, go to your magazine latch, when worn it will latch the magazine in a bad angle causing the problem your talking about. You could have a dented or very rough ramp but this is usually not the case.

The magazine latch is often over looked but causes a lot of trouble. Because it hooks into a slot near the front of the mag if worn the front of the mag sits too low, if it holds the mag too low the bullet will hit the ramp at too steep of an angle, it then bounces up and causes stove piping as you describe.

I am sure others have some ideas to help you tooÃ¢??good luck

Vern

Vlim · 04-06-2008, 04:04 PM

Good points made by Vern.

Also check if you're not pushing up against the magazine bottom while grasping the gun. Causes the same effects.

A.Mifsin · 04-07-2008, 01:00 AM

Gewehr 43, HI, Can you tell me what distance did you fire those shots and if the gun was hand held or on a rest please? fantastic grouping if I may say so.

Alf

Lugerdoc · 04-07-2008, 10:01 AM

Gewehr, I do carry the 36# Wolff recoil springs which might help if your current spring is too strong and now allowing the toggle to fully open (not picking up round from the mag), but since your toggle is not closing all the way when it does pick up a round, you may need their +10% stronger one. Also since your barrel has been changed, I would suggest checking the head spacing, polishing the feed ramps and checking that the toggle assy is moving freely in the barrelled receiver (yours may have been "squeezed" during rebarreling). I can do this work if you don't feel qualified. Lugerdoc

LugerVern · 04-07-2008, 08:45 PM

Lugerdoc

When there this close to working, do you lap the action or use a jig?
Do you use a weight gauge to test for binding or just use feel?
Do you have a spring set to use as a standard, one that you know is correct for most Lugers?

I am just curious as you specialize in Lugers you may have developed some tools along the way to help you.

Gewehr

You can mess up a luger pretty easily, that gun sure shoots nice, be gentle

Please don't hammer on her or get to rough-- don't laugh it happens more often than we care to count, I like your gun

Vern

Lugerdoc · 04-08-2008, 08:04 AM

Vern, I do have some exc condition WW2 Mauser recoil springs available @$15 as a standard. I can usually feel if the recoil spring tention is right just by experience, but other factors such as the ammo one uses and the length of the barrel, do play a part. lugerdoc

Gewehr 43 · 04-09-2008, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the responses, guys. I have been swamped with work lately so I've been a bit of a non presence. Lugerdoc, I just dispatched an email to you at your webtv.net address. I'm afraid this might be more work than I'd like to undertake myself.

I'll detail strip and diagnose a problematic G/K43 all day long, but I'd prefer to leave a Luger to the pros.

04-06-2008, 02:10 PM	#1
Gewehr 43 User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Troubleshooting my troubled shooter... I'm not sure if I should post this here or in the shooting forum, so moderators, please feel free to move if you deem necessary. A few weeks ago, I bought a slightly mismatched DWM commercial Luger from a fellow forum member. The sear bar (the numbered part immediately behind the safety stop) and the barrel are not matching. All else appears to be matching or unnumbered. The pistol is chambered for 9mm and all tests have been with Winchester White Box ammo. Last week, I took the pistol to the range after cleaning and lubing it thoroughly. With the reproduction mec-gar mag, it jammed virtually every round. -Most commonly, it would jam with the next, unfired round pointing nose up jammed between the bolt face and the chamber. About half of the cartridge was out of the pistol. -The next most common jam was where it would feed the round most of the way, but the toggle wouldn't drop into the locked position on its own. Once you tapped it down, it locked and would fire normally. - The final variation was a jam where the bolt would skip over the rear of the next cartridge in the mag and jam once it got about halfway up the side of the cartridge. This left a small dent in the side of the case. I figured it was probably a bad reproduction magazine, so I grabbed a 655-proofed original mag out of my G-date today and tried again. (no, the mag doesn't match the G-date) Unfortunately, the gun behaved the same with this mag as well. The first and last jam almost seem like a bad mag, but it's unlikely (though possible) since changing mags didn't make a difference. The second jam almost seems like a weak mainspring. I'm guessing they're next to impossible to replace if need be. I'd love to get this pistol running well because when she does shoot, she shoots like crazy. Any and all help is appreciated.

04-06-2008, 02:31 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Chuck, Get a Wolff Spring kit. I believe Tom Heller "lugerdoc" has them. It sounds like a main spring problem, but never know until you try. Another possible problem is if you are "limp wristing" it. Lugers shoot best with a stiff wrist / firm hold. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-07-2008, 01:00 AM	#5
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Gewehr 43, HI, Can you tell me what distance did you fire those shots and if the gun was hand held or on a rest please? fantastic grouping if I may say so. Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

04-07-2008, 10:01 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Gewehr, I do carry the 36# Wolff recoil springs which might help if your current spring is too strong and now allowing the toggle to fully open (not picking up round from the mag), but since your toggle is not closing all the way when it does pick up a round, you may need their +10% stronger one. Also since your barrel has been changed, I would suggest checking the head spacing, polishing the feed ramps and checking that the toggle assy is moving freely in the barrelled receiver (yours may have been "squeezed" during rebarreling). I can do this work if you don't feel qualified. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-08-2008, 08:04 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Vern, I do have some exc condition WW2 Mauser recoil springs available @$15 as a standard. I can usually feel if the recoil spring tention is right just by experience, but other factors such as the ammo one uses and the length of the barrel, do play a part. lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-06-2008, 02:43 PM	#3
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	If you are sure you donÃ¢??t have a worn magazine problem then the next most likely cause is ammunition make sure your using the correct weight. Next a weak main spring could be causing the trouble( like Ron says get a kit), try placing a piece of paper on the back of the frame, if too weak the paper will be cut completely through, it should only be smashed. If this is ok, go to your magazine latch, when worn it will latch the magazine in a bad angle causing the problem your talking about. You could have a dented or very rough ramp but this is usually not the case. The magazine latch is often over looked but causes a lot of trouble. Because it hooks into a slot near the front of the mag if worn the front of the mag sits too low, if it holds the mag too low the bullet will hit the ramp at too steep of an angle, it then bounces up and causes stove piping as you describe. I am sure others have some ideas to help you tooÃ¢??good luck Vern

04-06-2008, 04:04 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Good points made by Vern. Also check if you're not pushing up against the magazine bottom while grasping the gun. Causes the same effects.

04-07-2008, 08:45 PM	#7
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Lugerdoc When there this close to working, do you lap the action or use a jig? Do you use a weight gauge to test for binding or just use feel? Do you have a spring set to use as a standard, one that you know is correct for most Lugers? I am just curious as you specialize in Lugers you may have developed some tools along the way to help you. Gewehr You can mess up a luger pretty easily, that gun sure shoots nice, be gentle Please don't hammer on her or get to rough-- don't laugh it happens more often than we care to count, I like your gun Vern

04-09-2008, 08:14 PM	#9
Gewehr 43 User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the responses, guys. I have been swamped with work lately so I've been a bit of a non presence. Lugerdoc, I just dispatched an email to you at your webtv.net address. I'm afraid this might be more work than I'd like to undertake myself. I'll detail strip and diagnose a problematic G/K43 all day long, but I'd prefer to leave a Luger to the pros.