Newbie Need Opinion on First Luger

Bridge · 11-30-2007, 01:26 PM

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase my first Luger. I've been devouring as much info as possible from the site and whatever books/articles I can get my hands on (Thanks Pete for the Luger Restoration article!)

I can across this Luger at FGS:

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/images/lug11081.JPG

Described as:

1937 S/42 S/N 23xxy ALL MATCHING INCLUDING MAGAZINE. 97% ORIGINAL FINISH. VERY NICE GRIPS(NUMBERED TO GUN), MATCHING MAGAZINE, AND BORE......2850.00

Was planning to ask for some additional photos of top, right side, magazine (including proof and SN), sideplate, and with grips off (if possible).

The pricing seems a bit on the high side from what I've read (figuring $2000 for condition with all matching and about 25% additional with the match magazine)?

Any advice, thoughts, or watchouts?

Thanks,
Bridge

Edward Tinker · 11-30-2007, 01:48 PM

Bridge welcome to the forum. There are several sites that have very good reputations, FGS is one, the other is Simpson's, both have higher prices, but also have good reputations...

I would think that 97% finish and matching magazine makes this a resonable, albeit higher price...

It does appear there are a lot of 1937's that are very nice shape, no clue why...

Ed

Bridge · 11-30-2007, 07:16 PM

Ed,

Thanks very much.

I've received some additional pictures and the pistol looks very nice. No evience of reblue. Since a considerable amount of the value of the pistol is tied up in the magazine I'd like to get opinions on it as well. Two areas on this mag caught my eye. The area around the serial number seems "cleaner" than the rest of the mag bottom. Also E63 seems to have two marks under it.

Any thoughts on this? (click on pic for larger image)

Any input appreciated. Thanks!

Edward Tinker · 11-30-2007, 07:30 PM

it is best to post pictures directly here on the forum, that way folks don't have to go to a strange site (no offense).

Take a picture from the side, but I don't like how it looks either, nor the 'ghost" of the eagle 63 down below?

Ed

Sieger · 11-30-2007, 08:19 PM

Bridge:

I've bought several pistols from FGS over the years and have found them to be the most honest in their description. I only wish I could say that for several other sellers (no names will be mentioned here).

By the way, that is a nice looking Luger you are considering.

Don't settle on the list price so easily, "dicker" the price a bit, you might be surprised at the result.

Sieger

Bridge · 11-30-2007, 10:22 PM

Ok didnt know I could attach a picture directly. Same shot but should be bigger. There is patina around the 341 but seems to be absent around the 2. Could be the flash but there does seem to be a "ghost" 63 under the eagle. I'll have to request some additional pictures from different angles on Monday.

Here goes:

Bridge · 11-30-2007, 10:27 PM

Thanks for the advice. I've researched FGS and they have an excellent reputation which is why I'm looking to buy from them. Don't want to make a mistake on my first purchase though. Will certainly talk with them about price if I decide to move forward.

Bridge · 12-01-2007, 11:35 AM

Ok exchanged emails with seller and it looks like there is a small 6 and 3 stamped directly under the E63.

Seller thinks this might possibly be a stamp rebound. Is that possible? Common or uncommon to run across? How would this effect the value?

I've attached some additional pictures. Picture of bottom but slightly angled and darker.

Bridge · 12-01-2007, 11:35 AM

And from sides

Bridge · 12-01-2007, 11:37 AM

From other side

Edward Tinker · 12-01-2007, 11:38 AM

Greg, how much value are they increasing it for being 'all matching"?

I have seen the double tap / rebound before, i prefer not to have magazines like it (I have had several and might still)

You realize that a non matching magazine on a luger is the norm?? That it is much more common to find a luger without a matching magazine than with one.

Bridge · 12-01-2007, 12:11 PM

Ed,

List is $2850. It's a 97% condition so if I start with a rough baseline of $2000 for excellent condition for the gun alone you figure they're asking another roughly $800 for the match mag (give or take 50 or so either way). About a 40% premium.

I'm assuming the rebound assessment is a tough call. That ghost stamp is pretty hard to read. Sometimes it looks like a large 63 and other times it looks like an 8 under the 6 which would change the whole dynamic altogether.

Whew! This is a tough collecting field!

Tony S. · 12-01-2007, 12:57 PM

Bridge,
I sent you a PM.
"SEMPER PARATUS"

Bridge · 12-01-2007, 01:52 PM

Tony,

Sent you email back

Guntoter · 12-01-2007, 03:43 PM

I would make the call that the mag is correct. I have seen mags with the base ground and renumbered and to get all traces of the old number out requires a pretty deep grind, which this one does not appear to have. It does look a tad "flat" where the number is, but the number fonts appear identical (to me) to the numbers on the pistol. The suffix and E/63 look very correct and die bonce is common on almost any hand marking, especially small marks like this. I have, in the past, seen the bases be a bit flatter where the numbers are. I am thinking that may be a manufacturing process. But I don't get around as much Third Reich stuff either.

rttwlrby · 12-02-2007, 03:50 PM

FGS...
I too have bought many pistols from FGS, and they are always what they are supposed to be. Doug and Ken are very nice to deal with, and even though one might be paying a premium, their firearms are always better in hand, then their pictures allow.
Innevitably, I wind up purchasing from them. The goods are righteous.
Cheers

LugerVern · 12-02-2007, 05:55 PM

ThatÃ¢??s a very nice gun youÃ¢??re looking at, please compare to others and look closely at the overall finish, I donÃ¢??t think their too far off on price. There is minimum holster ware for example as compared to others you encounter.
If the double strike on the mag really bothers you, you should pass, itÃ¢??s your money, get what you want and feel good about it.
They have some other all matching guns with matching mags at somewhat lower prices that seem reasonable also, but thatÃ¢??s your call.

FGS is a great, solid place to purchase from.

Vern

the gunman · 12-03-2007, 09:16 AM

I two have bought from FGS and must say they stand by there sales. Very nice folks to deal with. They may be a little high but you know what you are buying. In this field its great to have people like them. I to have been "Stung" by our "Leading" dealers.

Bridge · 12-05-2007, 08:24 PM

Thanks to all the responders for helping a new guy out! I decided not to move on this particular gun (through absolutely no fault of FGS's as I have heard nothing but good things about them). I did arrange to buy an all matching (except magazine) Luger through another party. I'll post pics when it gets here.

I definitely need to study magazine stampings and become familiar and see all the variations, including things like what die bounce will look like etc. before my next purchase. Hopefully I can buy from FGS in the future. They have some really nice DWMs! Next step is to pick up my own copy of Still's books for the next purchases. I have a feeling this will be addicting...

Bob in OH · 12-05-2007, 09:16 PM

That mag looked right as rain to my (less than experts) eyes... Here's a perfect G.33/40 with cartouche bounce...

11-30-2007, 01:26 PM	#1
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie Need Opinion on First Luger Hi, I'm looking to purchase my first Luger. I've been devouring as much info as possible from the site and whatever books/articles I can get my hands on (Thanks Pete for the Luger Restoration article!) I can across this Luger at FGS: http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/images/lug11081.JPG Described as: 1937 S/42 S/N 23xxy ALL MATCHING INCLUDING MAGAZINE. 97% ORIGINAL FINISH. VERY NICE GRIPS(NUMBERED TO GUN), MATCHING MAGAZINE, AND BORE......2850.00 Was planning to ask for some additional photos of top, right side, magazine (including proof and SN), sideplate, and with grips off (if possible). The pricing seems a bit on the high side from what I've read (figuring $2000 for condition with all matching and about 25% additional with the match magazine)? Any advice, thoughts, or watchouts? Thanks, Bridge

11-30-2007, 01:48 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Bridge welcome to the forum. There are several sites that have very good reputations, FGS is one, the other is Simpson's, both have higher prices, but also have good reputations... I would think that 97% finish and matching magazine makes this a resonable, albeit higher price... It does appear there are a lot of 1937's that are very nice shape, no clue why... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-30-2007, 07:30 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	it is best to post pictures directly here on the forum, that way folks don't have to go to a strange site (no offense). Take a picture from the side, but I don't like how it looks either, nor the 'ghost" of the eagle 63 down below? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-30-2007, 08:19 PM	#5
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,579 Thanks: 2,144 Thanked 402 Times in 251 Posts	FGS, Inc. Bridge: I've bought several pistols from FGS over the years and have found them to be the most honest in their description. I only wish I could say that for several other sellers (no names will be mentioned here). By the way, that is a nice looking Luger you are considering. Don't settle on the list price so easily, "dicker" the price a bit, you might be surprised at the result. Sieger

11-30-2007, 10:22 PM	#6
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok didnt know I could attach a picture directly. Same shot but should be bigger. There is patina around the 341 but seems to be absent around the 2. Could be the flash but there does seem to be a "ghost" 63 under the eagle. I'll have to request some additional pictures from different angles on Monday. Here goes: Attached Thumbnails

11-30-2007, 07:16 PM	#3
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, Thanks very much. I've received some additional pictures and the pistol looks very nice. No evience of reblue. Since a considerable amount of the value of the pistol is tied up in the magazine I'd like to get opinions on it as well. Two areas on this mag caught my eye. The area around the serial number seems "cleaner" than the rest of the mag bottom. Also E63 seems to have two marks under it. Any thoughts on this? (click on pic for larger image) Any input appreciated. Thanks!

11-30-2007, 10:27 PM	#7
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the advice. I've researched FGS and they have an excellent reputation which is why I'm looking to buy from them. Don't want to make a mistake on my first purchase though. Will certainly talk with them about price if I decide to move forward.

12-01-2007, 11:35 AM	#8
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok exchanged emails with seller and it looks like there is a small 6 and 3 stamped directly under the E63. Seller thinks this might possibly be a stamp rebound. Is that possible? Common or uncommon to run across? How would this effect the value? I've attached some additional pictures. Picture of bottom but slightly angled and darker. Attached Thumbnails

12-01-2007, 11:35 AM	#9
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	And from sides Attached Thumbnails

12-01-2007, 11:37 AM	#10
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	From other side Attached Thumbnails

12-01-2007, 11:38 AM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,963 Thanks: 2,064 Thanked 4,593 Times in 2,115 Posts	Greg, how much value are they increasing it for being 'all matching"? I have seen the double tap / rebound before, i prefer not to have magazines like it (I have had several and might still) You realize that a non matching magazine on a luger is the norm?? That it is much more common to find a luger without a matching magazine than with one. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-01-2007, 12:11 PM	#12
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, List is $2850. It's a 97% condition so if I start with a rough baseline of $2000 for excellent condition for the gun alone you figure they're asking another roughly $800 for the match mag (give or take 50 or so either way). About a 40% premium. I'm assuming the rebound assessment is a tough call. That ghost stamp is pretty hard to read. Sometimes it looks like a large 63 and other times it looks like an 8 under the 6 which would change the whole dynamic altogether. Whew! This is a tough collecting field!

12-01-2007, 12:57 PM	#13
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bridge, I sent you a PM. "SEMPER PARATUS"

12-01-2007, 01:52 PM	#14
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tony, Sent you email back

12-01-2007, 03:43 PM	#15
Guntoter User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would make the call that the mag is correct. I have seen mags with the base ground and renumbered and to get all traces of the old number out requires a pretty deep grind, which this one does not appear to have. It does look a tad "flat" where the number is, but the number fonts appear identical (to me) to the numbers on the pistol. The suffix and E/63 look very correct and die bonce is common on almost any hand marking, especially small marks like this. I have, in the past, seen the bases be a bit flatter where the numbers are. I am thinking that may be a manufacturing process. But I don't get around as much Third Reich stuff either. __________________ Trust me, I'm with the Government.

12-02-2007, 03:50 PM	#16
rttwlrby User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	FGS... I too have bought many pistols from FGS, and they are always what they are supposed to be. Doug and Ken are very nice to deal with, and even though one might be paying a premium, their firearms are always better in hand, then their pictures allow. Innevitably, I wind up purchasing from them. The goods are righteous. Cheers

12-02-2007, 05:55 PM	#17
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	ThatÃ¢??s a very nice gun youÃ¢??re looking at, please compare to others and look closely at the overall finish, I donÃ¢??t think their too far off on price. There is minimum holster ware for example as compared to others you encounter. If the double strike on the mag really bothers you, you should pass, itÃ¢??s your money, get what you want and feel good about it. They have some other all matching guns with matching mags at somewhat lower prices that seem reasonable also, but thatÃ¢??s your call. FGS is a great, solid place to purchase from. Vern

12-03-2007, 09:16 AM	#18
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	I two have bought from FGS and must say they stand by there sales. Very nice folks to deal with. They may be a little high but you know what you are buying. In this field its great to have people like them. I to have been "Stung" by our "Leading" dealers.

12-05-2007, 08:24 PM	#19
Bridge User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to all the responders for helping a new guy out! I decided not to move on this particular gun (through absolutely no fault of FGS's as I have heard nothing but good things about them). I did arrange to buy an all matching (except magazine) Luger through another party. I'll post pics when it gets here. I definitely need to study magazine stampings and become familiar and see all the variations, including things like what die bounce will look like etc. before my next purchase. Hopefully I can buy from FGS in the future. They have some really nice DWMs! Next step is to pick up my own copy of Still's books for the next purchases. I have a feeling this will be addicting...

12-05-2007, 09:16 PM	#20
Bob in OH User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NE OH Posts: 129 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That mag looked right as rain to my (less than experts) eyes... Here's a perfect G.33/40 with cartouche bounce...