Swiss model 1900 #1

[MFC]

Hello Lugernauts,
Is Swiss model 1900 #1 documented to exist? If so, where is it, a private collection or museum? This has to be the Holy Grail of Luger collectors, right?
Forgive my newbieness.
Mike C.

[Ron Wood]

The whereabouts of #1 from the 1898 prototypes is unknown. The lowest known surviving example is #5. The 1900 Swiss military #1, which was the first "production" Luger, does exist and was in the collection of Henk Visser of the Netherlands. I do not know if it is still with that collection or not. The most likely candidate for a Luger Holy Grail would probably be one of the approximately ten 1898 Prototypes (#5 and #6 are known). After that probably one of the approximately thirty 1899 Preproduction pieces, of which about a dozen or so are known. These Pototype and Preproduction pieces are the genesis of our favorite firearm.

After that, probably the .45 caliber US Test Luger with only two (or possibly 3) verified existing examples, #2 and an un-numbered piece in a museum in Louisiana. There are some other extremly rare examples that are avidly sought by collectors, and other folks may consider them to be the Holy Grail depending on their collecting interests.

[Mike B]

Ron,
When you said "Louisiana," you got my attention. I had no idea there was a 45 so close to home. Can you let me know exactly where? You have my email address.
Many thanks,
Mike

[MFC]

Mike B.,
It's in the Norton Gallery in Shreveport. I read this in another thread but I can't find it now. I'm sure Ron knows the thread. Very Interesting. If I remember correctly Jan Still started the thread.
First time I was able to answer a forum question. Guess some of my newbieness just wore off.
Mike C.

[Edward Tinker]

Mike C, yes, you are absorbing I have seen the 45 luger, it is a nice one. Rumour has it that the 2nd known 45 luger is also in the South possibly in the same collection

The Norton Gallery has all kinds of museum items and Mr Norton was a gun collector, he also like to take nice guns and have them engraved. There is a Bordchart engraved...

Ed

[Pete Ebbink]

The serial number "01" of the Swiss Ordnance M1900 contract run of Lugers may be still be in the Dr. Rolf Grimder collection; as of several book photos in the late 1990's and even in the Strugess article about early Lugers written in 1996.

[Dwight Gruber]

Pete,

Can you give me a pointer to the Sturgess article? Sounds like something I definitely need to read...

--Dwight

[MFC]

Ron,
Seems to me #1 - 1900 is the first real Luger as prototypes were not meant
to be for sale, but a work in progress. I certainly understand the collectability of the 1898 and 1899's though, but what do I know? Like you said, depends on your personal interest.

Ed,
I'm planning to go there soon to see it. Think they'll let me shoot it? Hope they don't engrave it!!!

Pete,
Which books? Please post pointer to the Sturgess article also.

Thanks to all,
Mike C.

[Pete Ebbink]

Dr. Geoff Strugess of England wrote a comprehensive 20+ page article in a British arms collecting journal in 1996.

It compared the B-L lugers (No. 5 and No. 6) with the 1898/1899 pre-production lugers with the M1900 production lugers.

Article is still copy-righted. As far as I know, if has not been posted on the Internet.

Ron Wood was kind enough to sell me his extra journal at the the SOS show in KY last Feb.

When I am off the road, Dwight, I will send you the exact name of the Journal.

[Ron Wood]

It is "The Journal of the Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association", Volume 2 Number 9. The title of the article is "From Borchardt to Parabellum an Anglo-Swiss Connecton" by Dr. G. L. Sturgess.

[MFC]

Thanks very much to all,
Mike C.

[MFC]

I'll correct myself.
Before reading Ron's post I had never heard of 1898 or 99 lugers. Now that I've thought about it more, I realise that there were probably test lugers sent to the Swiss and maybe other countries as well. Also there may have been some made for sale to individuals or made as presentation pieces. Any of these would have been made, approved,and left the factory as a representative of Georg's new Pistole. Which ever one was made first would be my personal Holy Grail. I know that other collectors would rather have prototype 1898 #1. If it ever fell from the sky into my lap I'd be one PROUD gunowner, but to me one of the others is the first real luger.
That's my 2 cents. Feel free to set me straight.
Mike C.

[Ron Wood]

Mike,
There were no "one of the others". The 1899 Prototypes and 1899 Preproduction Lugers were the test Lugers sent to the Swiss and other countries.

[MFC]

Hi Ron,
Thanks for the staightening.
My new "Holy Grail" 1898 Prototype #1.
Mike C.

[Ron Wood]

You and me both brother!

[Pete Ebbink]

Web site link to the Norton Gallery :

http://www.rwnaf.org/

[drbuster]

Couldn't find the .45 luger on the web site, Pete. I guess you have to go there in person to see it.

[Vlim]

Ron,

I recently heard that most luger related material in the Visser collection was sold to Dr. Sturgess.

We'll know what is still present in the Henk Visser collection the next couple of months.

[Ron Wood]

Gerben,
Thanks for the update. The Sturgess collection is like the "black hole" of rare Lugers...eventually very little escapes it.

[Imperial Arms]

In order to summarize and correct the information mentioned in this post/discussion regarding the early pre-production Swiss Lugers, the whereabouts of the test Luger serial #1 is unknown. It is possible that this prototype Luger was fired excessively at DWM and discarded/destroyed. Luger pistols serial #5 and #6 (of the 1898 model) are in Switzerland and I depict them on my web site named Imperial Arms.

Based on the survival of various pre-production Lugers and the history of the various trials which occurred during 1898-1901, the following theory can be made:

1898 Swiss Trails - serial #5 and #6 delivered to Switzerland, and maybe a few more pistols (#7, #8, #9) which have not survived;

In the summer of 1898 (I guess), Luger #6 was returned to DWM for modification to improve the safety and the pistol to be lightened in weight. When it was returned to Switzerland for an individual inspection (not a test), it did not meet the satisfaction of the Swiss Pistol Commission who requested that additional improvements be made to the safety, and the pistol must be reduced down to 850 grams;

1899 Swiss Trails - 20 'new and improved' pistols in the serial range 10-29 were delivered for tests which met the satisfaction of the commission. It is a fact that these pistol were PURCHASED by the Swiss Government and it is totally illogical and senseless that some of these pistols would be taken from the Swiss by DWM for modification and/or reburishment and delivered 15 months later to the British for trials;

1899 Dutch Trails - It is estimated that 10 pistols (maybe less) in the serial range 30-40 were delivered to The Netherlands for trails;

When the Swiss gave a contract to DWM for the M1900 pistol, 20 pistols (starting at serial #1 through #20) were offered as gifts to the members of the Swiss Pistol Commission in 1900. These pistols have the normal rear sight of a M1900 pistol unlike the earlier M1899 rear sight which are not slanted, but thin-vertical in form.

In the Spring of 1901, DWM delivers approximately six pistols (in the serial range #21-#26) to the British for trails.

In 1902, a M1900 Swiss Military Luger pistol is delivered to Switzerland with the serial number '01'. It is controversial whether the first nine Swiss military contract pistols from DWM would have a zero with a single-digit serial number when no other German manufacturer would use a zero in front of a serial number.

Albert