Luger Mag ID

[Jerry L.]

Can anyone out there tell me if the pictured mag, #2713v is possibly a contract or commercial type? Note that it has no military acceptance stamp, and what appears to be a partial, very small commercial type eagle or possibly a partial letter on the side of the base below the pin that secures the base.

I've been away from Lugers for 22 years and just can't remember very much about stuff like this.

Thanks very much

Jerry L. Pic #1

[Jerry L.]

Pic #2

[Ron Smith]

Hi Jerry,

I am far from knowledgable on the later commercials. From what I can find in Still's Third Reichs Lugers. The only V suffix commercials reported in that serial range are the 1938 S/42.

My understanding is that the + is a military designation for the spare mag. Yet the absence of a waffenamt could leave it as a commercial mag.

Ron

[Jerry L.]

Ron,

Thanks for the reply and info. I should have added in my post that the mag base is in original condition, there has never been a waffenamt on it, no grind or polishing marks. I couldn't find anything in Don Hallock's Mauser Mag info that would give a clue about its origin so your info on the 1938 S/42 is very helpful.

By the way do you know how to post more than one photo at a time when posting a message? I got all mixed up even trying to post the one. It's so much easier to add pics on the P.38 Forum. I'd appreciate it if you could explain.

Thanks again,

Jerry

[Edward Tinker]

For more than one, go to upper right, upload. I am pretty sure this is the same upload procedcure that John had before the P48 forum upgrade. Upload, copy link, paste link, upload, copy link, paste link

[Jerry L.]

Thanks very much Edward,

Jerry

[Edward Tinker]

Jerry shoot me an email if you get stuck, weimar_lugers@comcast.net

Ed

[Jerry L.]

Thanks Ed,

I may not be posting any pics for a few more days but I'll definitely contact you if I have a problem, and with me and computers I'm bound to have a problem.

Jerry

[Edward Tinker]

me too just ask John D, he says I have two left thumbs...

[Jerry L.]

Well, I feel more at home now. I've got at least two left thumbs maybe more.

Thanks Ed,

Jerry

[RockinWR]

Hi Jerry,
* Actually the choices are:
(1) 1937 S/42 Code Luger - Most likely a 2nd Var. (Still, TRL, Pg. 39)
(2) 1939 42 Code Luger (Still, TRL, Pg. 65)
(3) 1940 Army Banner - 4th Dutch lot (Still, TRL, Pgs. 140 & 178, Var. 3, S/N range of 2655v-3254v )
(4) 1938 S/42 Code, C/U Military Coded Commercial in the Banner "v" block range (Still, TRL, Var. 9, Pg. 220 & Costanzo, WOL).
(5) 1936-1940, Banner Dated Commercial in the Banner "v" block range (Still, TRL, Var. 6, Pg. 220)

* (1) & (2) can likely be eliminated as there is no WaA mag acceptance.

* (3) The mag's S/N falls in the correct S/N range for the 600 guns initially built for the cited Dutch lot and impressed by the German Army in May, 1940. The mag's "v" is of the font size/style for the Dutch Contract as can be seen from the Forum's Tech Info display of suffix letters. Many of the early pistols in this range are proofed w/ the commercial C/U mark. However, all examples I know of this lot ( & I don't know them all) received the sE/655 Army acceptance(s) on the pistol & intuitively, one would expect the mags to have received the same Army inspector's acceptance treatment. Still, TRL, Fig. 30f, Pg. 184 and Fig. 22, Pg. 144 displays pics of the pistol's sE/655 acceptance marks; but, unfortunately does not mention the mag's markings. I believe in a long past thread on Dutch Army Banner's, MauserLugers (Bill Munis-RIP) reported his matching mag example having only the S/N & suffix letter on the mag. Begs the question how a spare mag would have been marked.

* (4) As Ron has stated, the "+" is an Army marking requirement for the reserve mag & the lack of a Waffen Inspector's stamp suggests commercial or contract. This option best fits (without an unintended acceptance mark error/omission having occurred) with the info only gleened directly from this mag.

* (5) The Banner commercials are also an option; but, the J. Peason examples shown in Still, TRL, Figs. 44b - 44e, Pgs, 234 note the issued mags for these are unmarked in keeping w/ Mauser's pattern for commercial sale pistols.

* Possibly Joop's data research on the "v" block Banners up to 6000v will help add to this topic & possibly provide a solution.

* SO: A strong case can be made for either a Dutch contract gun or a C/U Military Coded Commercial. Therfore, I'm proud to definitively say its either a Contract or Commercial Mauser Mag. Ahhhh, you didn't say that in your question did you??? Oh well, I suppose we'll know more positively when the original, unaltered P.08 pistol w/ its original main mag matching this spare mag shows up.

* Anyway, I hope this helps clarify the options & gives others cause to report further info or matching mag pistols w/ mag markings contemporary to your example.

Respectfully,
Bob

[Jerry L.]

Bob,

I can't thank you enough for the painstaking research you obviously did to come up with the above information.

In my post titled Spare Magazine List in Luger Accssories yesterday I mentioned that I been away from Luger collecting for 22 years and it shows. Back then pretty much all a guy had for reference was Datig, Jones, Kenyon and a few others and of course none of them went into detail like Jan Still and other authors today. Now I know for sure that I can't put off any longer getting Still's book/s.

The mag in question came with the 1940/42 rig, #2700c, I picked up two years ago, my one and only Luger at this point. When the old timer I got it from and I first started talking about the sale my first question to him was: does it have a matching mag/s? and his answer was: well it has two factory mis-matched mags. I knew right away that he had to have been talking to a "Luger collector?" at some point, and he must have chased down this mag and the second one that was with gun, a fxo P08 #2749 + (no suffix) and put them together with the rig. He denied doing that of course and said he got the pistol from a friend who was a WWII vet who personally took it from a German Major he personally captured at Anzio. (Isn't it amazing how many field grade officers carried Lugers?) Great story sez I, how much do you want for it? $850.00 sez he. I told him it was worth a lot more than that and he said he only paid $100.00 for it so the rest is history. He's trying to track down the capture papers for me but the old vet has Alzheimer's and his son doesn't know where the papers are.

The holster with the rig is an R. Ehrhardt dated 1940 and it had some broken stitching so I sent it off to Jerry Burney and when it came back I couldn't tell where the repaired stitches were. He's a master of his art.

Sorry to ramble on so. I'd also love to see the original Pistol for this mag to surface.

Thanks very much again Bob, you're a credit + to the Forum,

Jerry

[Jerry L.]

Pics of the mag body: Pic#1

Jerry L.

[Jerry L.]

Pic #2