Simpson's Ltd

tracyp · 05-17-2006, 10:53 AM

Ed,

I don't think the Simpson's thread should have been closed. Brad Simpson said that the 3% restocking fee was for credit cards. Here's Simpson's policy form their website:

"GUARANTEE: Money will be cheerfully refunded on any item you are not happy with, but please call before returning an item. A 3% restocking fee will be charged on returned items. Returns must be made within 3 DAYS OF YOUR RECEIVING THEM and they must be in the same condition as received."

The 3% is on all returns, not just credit cards.

Ed,

I hope your not mad at me for continuing this thread, but I think this is an important fact to state.

Tracy

policeluger · 05-17-2006, 12:15 PM

Looks like there are two parts of their ordering instructions covering returning guns, one mentions the 3% the other does not, could be a bit confusing, sorry Ed.....us California boys ain't got much so we got to stick together.

Edward Tinker · 05-17-2006, 12:31 PM

Tracy never mad, but I just thought all had been said. It was starting to get "he says, I said" and thought it didn't need to go further.

Ed

bradsimpson · 05-17-2006, 12:43 PM

Tracy,
We are in a small town (Galesburg, IL) and there is only one local bank capable of handling all our banking needs: international checks, international wires, letters of credit, currency exchanges, etc. Other local banks have no clue about this stuff.

Unfortunately, a merchant credit card account from this bank does not allow for the refund of credit card fees on returned items. This is a fairly new policy, and for now we are stuck with it. There is no other bank in Galesburg for us to go to at this time. We are looking for other options.

bradsimpson · 05-17-2006, 12:50 PM

Tracy,
PS: You are correct that the web-site says that there is a 3% restocking fee on all returned items. But it only applies to credit card purchases.

We are making a correction on the web-site today to clarify this policy.

Thank you.

John Sabato · 05-17-2006, 01:01 PM

Brad,

Thanks for explaining the situation and your refund policies...

Imperial Arms · 05-17-2006, 02:01 PM

Putting aside the sellers (return) policies and the small financial loses of this disappointing deal which occurred between a buyer and a dealer, what is more important is that sellers/dealers bear in mind customer/buyer satisfaction and uphold their professional reputation. Sometimes it is not worth the aggravation fighting over $50-$100 when somebodies reputation becomes stained on a public forum. It is part of human nature to rarely accept the blame and this is a reason why disputes still continue. There is always an alternative way to resolve a situation where both parties could be satisfied whether or not the item in question has a defect or it has been unintentionally misrepresented.

I remember last year when I made an unintentional mistake and lost $750 in a deal. I sincerely apologized to the buyer and we continue to be on very good terms. Since that time, I have recovered my loss, made a good profit for my hobby, and I am satisfied with the rewarding result. Irrespective of what happens in business, it is important to learn that integrity is the most important factor in this collectors society. Those people who do not believe it will discover with time that unfortunate consequences.

I hope that my comment will bring positve awareness to such situations.

All the best and peace,
Albert

bradsimpson · 05-17-2006, 02:32 PM

Albert,
I just got back last week from spending most of this year in Asia. I was informed on Tuesday about this thread by three different customers, all of whom said I should respond. By the time I knew anything about the deal, we were already being trashed on a public forum.

The first thing I did was investigate the deal. The salesman said it was a case of buyer's remorse and the gun was fine. Dad and I inspected the gun and it was OK. Then a single action collector who was in the shop inspected the gun and said it was OK. Finally a famous author of gun books who happened to be in the shop inspected the gun and said it was OK. We all read the customer's E-Mails and disagreed with his claims. Maybe we are all wrong?

If I was convinced we had made a mistake, I would have reimbursed the 3% fee and eaten the charge. We have done it before, and for a lot more money than this. I honestly don't believe the gun is defective, and I can't find anybody I know and trust that can show me otherwise.

I would have loved to have been in a position to make the guy happy, but it was too late. He had already made the issue public, and all I could do was refute statements that I believed to be false. I tried to do as politely as possible.

All we can do is identify where this deal went wrong and try not to let it happen again. I don't intend to post on this subject any further.

Thank you & take care,
Brad

lugerholsterrepair · 05-17-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

I would have loved to have been in a position to make the guy happy, but it was too late. He had already made the issue public, and all I could do was refute statements that I believed to be false. I tried to do as politely as possible.

This discourse has indeed been polite, as it should be. It's my belief that it's never too late to not only make your customer happy but more importantly to salvage what could be percieved as a stain on a heretofor excellent business record.
All through this I have seen confusion due primarily to a new policy. Any new policy can take a little while to work the bugs out.
Whose fault is it? Does this pistol have a fault percieved by the customer? Is it buyers remorse? Is the bank holding Brad's 3%? Who knows and who cares.
You would have to put a pistol to my head for me to buy this type of advertising.
I would rather lose a gob of money than have my reputation sullied on a World Forum. The memory of this unresolved will cost a great deal more than 3% of whatever it was.
Rule # 1, Business 101...The customer is always right...Rule #2..See rule #1.
It's the individual customer that brings you business not the Bank that is taking 3% for no good reason other than they can.
Go to war with your bank, not your customer.
Jerry Burney

hqbmw · 05-17-2006, 07:42 PM

I have followed this bantering closely before putting my two cents worth in. Jerry's point is correct. I had a BMW pepair business in The Bay Area for 20 years and the first thing I instructed EVERY employee was "We are here for only one purpose: the customer. If we have no customer, we have no business and you have no paycheck. Everything we do is for the customer."

I can freely repeat these words because I said it over and over and over. I took great care in my clientel, BUT I did get rid of the clientel that were problems. Somehow their bills and estimates just got the message across. There is not, will not, and never will be a "perfect car," despite what some BMW owners think. No matter how good an automobile is, there is always a chance of a problem. We were there to try to minimise the chance of a catastrophic breakdown.

Now, I also believe Brad is correct, but in a different way. The 3% is a moot issue to his business. I expect he plans his business like most normal retail businesses and has built in margins for everything. I just got off the phone after speaking to J & G about a possible trade for a Sig 210 complete kit they have in stock. The manager told me my best bet is to pay in cash rather than trading as they will only give 50% of a trade's value. Hmmmm. he wants me to trade $9000.00 worth of product for the $4500.00 Sig; lots of room to hide 3% if needed.

I don't know Brad from Adam. The only thing I know is a mutual acquaintence, Ian Snedderton, who happens to be a famous (in gun circles) writer spoke very highly of Brad to me recently and Simpson's Limited has had a reputation among the Forum members of being "The" place to shop if price is of no concern. It is NEVER "too late" to salvage a situation because in general, we as a buying public remember THE LAST or THE END situation of any particular problem. If my manager had left a situation unresolved until it got to this kind of slander, he would be on the carpet immediately. Again, the 3% being a moot issue, a credit of the 3% toward a future transaction would not only make the client happy, it would get him back into the store to make a future purchase.

In the end, the remainder of The Forum would only remember that Brad (The owner, I presume, cause his name is on the door,) went out of his way to resolve the problem while still supporting his staff and saving face with the reading public. The client may not be "right" but would have a store credit which is as good as cash in his mind and will from that point on shop with this credit in mind regardless of how much it is. Try it yourself; return a product to the Home Depot and the credit memo you receive will make you shop as if you are loaded.

Jack Hiles
Mesa AZ

Edward Tinker · 05-17-2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hqbmw
I have followed this bantering closely before putting my two cents worth in....
If my manager had left a situation unresolved until it got to this kind of slander

Jack, just to make things clear, I do not think it is slander to state a specific problem you have had, slander is when something is a lie. And if that is the legal term; and it might be; I still would prefer other words, but would also prefer this thread to die away for a 2nd time.

1. This forum is to discuss lugers.
2. Yes, we need to bring issues up that affect other folks from dealers.
3. I am tired of the banter and don't give a damn if others want it to continue.

4. I have limited time over the next week, and really would rather discuss your 1906 or 1900 DWM then this topic.

Imperial Arms · 05-18-2006, 02:08 AM

Brad, and respondents to this thread:

Thank you 'lugerholsterrepair' and 'hqbmw' for giving valuable examples of customer satisfaction which should be appreciated by all members on this forum. Edward (the Super Boss), I know that you becoming 'tired' of this thread, but we all learn from experiences, both positive and negative which hopefully leads to better business relationships and standards.

Brad, if you do not mind, allow me to give some neutral/unbias input into this matter which will likely resolve this matter and shed some bright light on your business. Based on your 'investigation', you probably feel that you are correct in your position/reaction and that the disgruntled buyer is wrong and, therefore, you refuse to return a restocking fee (which your bank will charge your company even for those transactions which failed). You mentioned that you have refunded the 3% fee to other clients (for larger amounts), so why not do the same in this case and welcome the applaud which you will receive from all the people who are reading this unfortunate topic? Such matters should not be based on opinion, and who is right and who is wrong. The right thing to do is to salvage this problem whether it is past or present (as Lugerholsterrepair has suggested using 'Business 101') by refunding the buyer the 3% (he has accepted to waive return shipment which is also a financial loss to him); both parties apologize to each other and 'make-up'; and set a good example by acting as proper business professionals; and not allowing future problems to get out of hand leading to international exposure. Hopefully, the end result will be civil and diplomatic for everyone allowing your friendship with Bob to flourish.

I am sure that everyone on this forum would like to read a reply by you and Bob that this matter has been properly resolved and everyone is satisfied.

All the best & happy collecting,
Albert

lew1 · 05-18-2006, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bradsimpson
Tracy,
We are in a small town (Galesburg, IL) and there is only one local bank capable of handling all our banking needs: international checks, international wires, letters of credit, currency exchanges, etc. Other local banks have no clue about this stuff.

Unfortunately, a merchant credit card account from this bank does not allow for the refund of credit card fees on returned items. This is a fairly new policy, and for now we are stuck with it. There is no other bank in Galesburg for us to go to at this time. We are looking for other options.

My experience with banks is that (if you have a large account) the banks become very agreeable about an occassional individual charge - once you tell them that you are looking for a different bank and intend to switch.

Schupo · 05-18-2006, 09:43 AM

Gentlemen,

Regarding good customer service... Probably twenty years ago I bought an Aladdin lamp from LL Bean. My son broke the glass shade while practicing his golf swing. I contacted LL Bean and asked them to send me a new shade to replace the broken one and to bill me for the cost of the replacement. I received a new shade and a no-charge invoice. I called the customer service line and explained that I wanted to pay for the new lamp shade and the postage. They would not accept my money!

LL Bean said that if I was dis-satisfied with the broken lamp they would make it good. After trying again to pay for the shade (my kid broke it accidentally I explained) for another few minutes, I gave up and accepted the free glass shade. I have been a customer ever since and in my eyes LL Bean can do no wrong.

I will not buy again from vendors who have poor customer service, no matter what they have for sale at any price.

the gunman · 05-18-2006, 10:48 AM

"AMEN" Schupo

Rod WMG · 05-18-2006, 08:35 PM

Not exactly pertinent to the thread, but RCBS has won my business for the exact reason Schupo stated. I couldn't pay them for something that was my fault after repeated offers. They also used to put out a beautiful book on basic reloading which has helped a lot of beginners for free--I assume they still do this.

Knowing a company will go that extra mile earns my respect and repeated business.

05-17-2006, 01:01 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Brad, Thanks for explaining the situation and your refund policies... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-17-2006, 07:42 PM	#10
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	3% I have followed this bantering closely before putting my two cents worth in. Jerry's point is correct. I had a BMW pepair business in The Bay Area for 20 years and the first thing I instructed EVERY employee was "We are here for only one purpose: the customer. If we have no customer, we have no business and you have no paycheck. Everything we do is for the customer." I can freely repeat these words because I said it over and over and over. I took great care in my clientel, BUT I did get rid of the clientel that were problems. Somehow their bills and estimates just got the message across. There is not, will not, and never will be a "perfect car," despite what some BMW owners think. No matter how good an automobile is, there is always a chance of a problem. We were there to try to minimise the chance of a catastrophic breakdown. Now, I also believe Brad is correct, but in a different way. The 3% is a moot issue to his business. I expect he plans his business like most normal retail businesses and has built in margins for everything. I just got off the phone after speaking to J & G about a possible trade for a Sig 210 complete kit they have in stock. The manager told me my best bet is to pay in cash rather than trading as they will only give 50% of a trade's value. Hmmmm. he wants me to trade $9000.00 worth of product for the $4500.00 Sig; lots of room to hide 3% if needed. I don't know Brad from Adam. The only thing I know is a mutual acquaintence, Ian Snedderton, who happens to be a famous (in gun circles) writer spoke very highly of Brad to me recently and Simpson's Limited has had a reputation among the Forum members of being "The" place to shop if price is of no concern. It is NEVER "too late" to salvage a situation because in general, we as a buying public remember THE LAST or THE END situation of any particular problem. If my manager had left a situation unresolved until it got to this kind of slander, he would be on the carpet immediately. Again, the 3% being a moot issue, a credit of the 3% toward a future transaction would not only make the client happy, it would get him back into the store to make a future purchase. In the end, the remainder of The Forum would only remember that Brad (The owner, I presume, cause his name is on the door,) went out of his way to resolve the problem while still supporting his staff and saving face with the reading public. The client may not be "right" but would have a store credit which is as good as cash in his mind and will from that point on shop with this credit in mind regardless of how much it is. Try it yourself; return a product to the Home Depot and the credit memo you receive will make you shop as if you are loaded. Jack Hiles Mesa AZ

05-18-2006, 09:43 AM	#14
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	Gentlemen, Regarding good customer service... Probably twenty years ago I bought an Aladdin lamp from LL Bean. My son broke the glass shade while practicing his golf swing. I contacted LL Bean and asked them to send me a new shade to replace the broken one and to bill me for the cost of the replacement. I received a new shade and a no-charge invoice. I called the customer service line and explained that I wanted to pay for the new lamp shade and the postage. They would not accept my money! LL Bean said that if I was dis-satisfied with the broken lamp they would make it good. After trying again to pay for the shade (my kid broke it accidentally I explained) for another few minutes, I gave up and accepted the free glass shade. I have been a customer ever since and in my eyes LL Bean can do no wrong. I will not buy again from vendors who have poor customer service, no matter what they have for sale at any price. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

05-17-2006, 10:53 AM	#1
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Simpson's Ltd Ed, I don't think the Simpson's thread should have been closed. Brad Simpson said that the 3% restocking fee was for credit cards. Here's Simpson's policy form their website: "GUARANTEE: Money will be cheerfully refunded on any item you are not happy with, but please call before returning an item. A 3% restocking fee will be charged on returned items. Returns must be made within 3 DAYS OF YOUR RECEIVING THEM and they must be in the same condition as received." The 3% is on all returns, not just credit cards. Ed, I hope your not mad at me for continuing this thread, but I think this is an important fact to state. Tracy

05-17-2006, 12:15 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Looks like there are two parts of their ordering instructions covering returning guns, one mentions the 3% the other does not, could be a bit confusing, sorry Ed.....us California boys ain't got much so we got to stick together.

05-17-2006, 12:31 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Tracy never mad, but I just thought all had been said. It was starting to get "he says, I said" and thought it didn't need to go further. Ed

05-17-2006, 12:43 PM	#4
bradsimpson User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Galesburg, IL Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Tracy, We are in a small town (Galesburg, IL) and there is only one local bank capable of handling all our banking needs: international checks, international wires, letters of credit, currency exchanges, etc. Other local banks have no clue about this stuff. Unfortunately, a merchant credit card account from this bank does not allow for the refund of credit card fees on returned items. This is a fairly new policy, and for now we are stuck with it. There is no other bank in Galesburg for us to go to at this time. We are looking for other options.

05-17-2006, 12:50 PM	#5
bradsimpson User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Galesburg, IL Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Tracy, PS: You are correct that the web-site says that there is a 3% restocking fee on all returned items. But it only applies to credit card purchases. We are making a correction on the web-site today to clarify this policy. Thank you.

05-17-2006, 02:01 PM	#7
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Putting aside the sellers (return) policies and the small financial loses of this disappointing deal which occurred between a buyer and a dealer, what is more important is that sellers/dealers bear in mind customer/buyer satisfaction and uphold their professional reputation. Sometimes it is not worth the aggravation fighting over $50-$100 when somebodies reputation becomes stained on a public forum. It is part of human nature to rarely accept the blame and this is a reason why disputes still continue. There is always an alternative way to resolve a situation where both parties could be satisfied whether or not the item in question has a defect or it has been unintentionally misrepresented. I remember last year when I made an unintentional mistake and lost $750 in a deal. I sincerely apologized to the buyer and we continue to be on very good terms. Since that time, I have recovered my loss, made a good profit for my hobby, and I am satisfied with the rewarding result. Irrespective of what happens in business, it is important to learn that integrity is the most important factor in this collectors society. Those people who do not believe it will discover with time that unfortunate consequences. I hope that my comment will bring positve awareness to such situations. All the best and peace, Albert

05-17-2006, 02:32 PM	#8
bradsimpson User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Galesburg, IL Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts	Albert, I just got back last week from spending most of this year in Asia. I was informed on Tuesday about this thread by three different customers, all of whom said I should respond. By the time I knew anything about the deal, we were already being trashed on a public forum. The first thing I did was investigate the deal. The salesman said it was a case of buyer's remorse and the gun was fine. Dad and I inspected the gun and it was OK. Then a single action collector who was in the shop inspected the gun and said it was OK. Finally a famous author of gun books who happened to be in the shop inspected the gun and said it was OK. We all read the customer's E-Mails and disagreed with his claims. Maybe we are all wrong? If I was convinced we had made a mistake, I would have reimbursed the 3% fee and eaten the charge. We have done it before, and for a lot more money than this. I honestly don't believe the gun is defective, and I can't find anybody I know and trust that can show me otherwise. I would have loved to have been in a position to make the guy happy, but it was too late. He had already made the issue public, and all I could do was refute statements that I believed to be false. I tried to do as politely as possible. All we can do is identify where this deal went wrong and try not to let it happen again. I don't intend to post on this subject any further. Thank you & take care, Brad

05-18-2006, 02:08 AM	#12
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Brad, and respondents to this thread: Thank you 'lugerholsterrepair' and 'hqbmw' for giving valuable examples of customer satisfaction which should be appreciated by all members on this forum. Edward (the Super Boss), I know that you becoming 'tired' of this thread, but we all learn from experiences, both positive and negative which hopefully leads to better business relationships and standards. Brad, if you do not mind, allow me to give some neutral/unbias input into this matter which will likely resolve this matter and shed some bright light on your business. Based on your 'investigation', you probably feel that you are correct in your position/reaction and that the disgruntled buyer is wrong and, therefore, you refuse to return a restocking fee (which your bank will charge your company even for those transactions which failed). You mentioned that you have refunded the 3% fee to other clients (for larger amounts), so why not do the same in this case and welcome the applaud which you will receive from all the people who are reading this unfortunate topic? Such matters should not be based on opinion, and who is right and who is wrong. The right thing to do is to salvage this problem whether it is past or present (as Lugerholsterrepair has suggested using 'Business 101') by refunding the buyer the 3% (he has accepted to waive return shipment which is also a financial loss to him); both parties apologize to each other and 'make-up'; and set a good example by acting as proper business professionals; and not allowing future problems to get out of hand leading to international exposure. Hopefully, the end result will be civil and diplomatic for everyone allowing your friendship with Bob to flourish. I am sure that everyone on this forum would like to read a reply by you and Bob that this matter has been properly resolved and everyone is satisfied. All the best & happy collecting, Albert

05-18-2006, 10:48 AM	#15
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	"AMEN" Schupo

05-18-2006, 08:35 PM	#16
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not exactly pertinent to the thread, but RCBS has won my business for the exact reason Schupo stated. I couldn't pay them for something that was my fault after repeated offers. They also used to put out a beautiful book on basic reloading which has helped a lot of beginners for free--I assume they still do this. Knowing a company will go that extra mile earns my respect and repeated business.