44 S&W Double Action

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2006, 05:47 PM

Okay, had no intention on spending Simson money, but...

I thought I knew what I was buying today, but turned out to be different than I thought, once I brought her home and looked it up I realized I had a S&W double action in 44 S&W Russian (although a 44 S&W Special fits right in, I don't have a 44 Russian cartridge to test.

From the Blue Book, I think I am even or just paid slightly too much, too early.

:

Comments? Serial number is 2619 so early for the production of 50+ thousand made.

What is the star after the serial number?

They called this a mexican holster...

RichSr · 04-14-2006, 07:56 PM

Hi Ed,

I've enjoyed the banter and knowledge on this forum and finally may be able to contribute. Had a Smith & Wesson Double Action First Model some 1200 newer than yours. It had a shoulder in the chambers that would not allow a S&W Special to seat fully. The cylinder was about 1.4 inches in length while a S&W SPL is about 1.6 OAL. Kinda makes it tough to index the cylinder yaknow. This model was also offered in 38WCF and 44WCF but with a longer cylinder. 44 S&W Special is just a longer S&W Russian ( like 38 Spl to 357 Mag). The star has been noted as a factory mark on revolvers returned for refinishing or other modifications. Perhaps a rechambering ? Hope this helps.

Rich

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2006, 08:31 PM

Thanks Rich, was $620 out the door too much you think? Not that it matters, it is staying on the wall

Ed

RichSr · 04-14-2006, 09:08 PM

Sounds about right to me. I've seen higher and and a little lower recently The large caliber S & W topbreaks have been appreciating well of late. Vintage Colt SAA prices are out of many peoples reach.
Probably saying something you already know, but antique condition standards are a lot lower. A Luger in "fine" condition by antique standards would be considered just a shooter or at best a candidate for Thor.

wlyon · 04-14-2006, 09:26 PM

Ed You probably have already looked at it but "Flayderman's Guide to Antique Amereican Firearms has a writeup on this pistol. Keep in touch. Bill

John Sabato · 04-14-2006, 09:28 PM

ED, you need to get at least $5.00 back and return the UGLIEST holster I have ever seen in my life

(BUT it IS a NICE .44 S&W... congrats on that!)

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wlyon
Ed You probably have already looked at it but "Flayderman's Guide to Antique Amereican Firearms has a writeup on this pistol. Keep in touch. Bill

I did not, will go look!

John, the guy told me $625, I had cash for $400, he ran the ATM / Credit Card for $225 and he forgot to run the taxes, so he said, never mind... So, I figure I got another $20-$25.00 off

kidvett · 04-14-2006, 10:26 PM

Ed,

Nice old Smith you have there !! 44 Russian is the forerunner to the 44 Spl and was a modification ( a bit longer ) of the 44 American that was the cartridge introduced in S&W large double action pistols...

Is this a period holster ?? I would believe so as it has a ``gunfighter slot`` on the body...This is used when the pistol is twisted so the front trigger guard rests in that slot. It gives you a full clearance af the grip & trigger for that fast first shot...It was popular back then in the gunfighter's day...

Pic of a 1909 vintage 38-40 Bisley with period holster. Please note the similar ``gunfighter slot``...

Not Lugers but these old guns are also interesting...

MARC

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2006, 10:30 PM

nice Bisley Marc, didn't know you like these!

I want to get a 1st gen SSA, but that will have to be eventually.

Ed

Hugh · 04-14-2006, 11:11 PM

Ed,

Looks like a Mexican holster alright, with those "zebra striped" rattlesnakes and Gila Monsters on it. All you have to do to get a 1st Gen SAA is sell 5 or 6 high end Loogers!

Edward Tinker · 04-14-2006, 11:25 PM

I know Hugh, even a ratty, ratty one is what a nice luger costs

Aaron · 04-15-2006, 10:14 PM

I had no idea you guys were interested in guns other than Lugers. I bought a big collection of Smiths and others last year, many superb old models NIB, and have gradually sold most of them off. Maybe some of you would be interested in a few I have left, such as a nice U.S marked Schofield, a Bekeart .22, S&W New Model 1 1/2, a NIB model 39, etc. Would love to trade for Lugers..........

04-14-2006, 05:47 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	44 S&W Double Action Okay, had no intention on spending Simson money, but... I thought I knew what I was buying today, but turned out to be different than I thought, once I brought her home and looked it up I realized I had a S&W double action in 44 S&W Russian (although a 44 S&W Special fits right in, I don't have a 44 Russian cartridge to test. From the Blue Book, I think I am even or just paid slightly too much, too early. : Comments? Serial number is 2619 so early for the production of 50+ thousand made. What is the star after the serial number? They called this a mexican holster...

04-14-2006, 07:56 PM	#2
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 154 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Hi Ed, I've enjoyed the banter and knowledge on this forum and finally may be able to contribute. Had a Smith & Wesson Double Action First Model some 1200 newer than yours. It had a shoulder in the chambers that would not allow a S&W Special to seat fully. The cylinder was about 1.4 inches in length while a S&W SPL is about 1.6 OAL. Kinda makes it tough to index the cylinder yaknow. This model was also offered in 38WCF and 44WCF but with a longer cylinder. 44 S&W Special is just a longer S&W Russian ( like 38 Spl to 357 Mag). The star has been noted as a factory mark on revolvers returned for refinishing or other modifications. Perhaps a rechambering ? Hope this helps. Rich __________________ Rich

04-14-2006, 09:08 PM	#4
RichSr User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Texas Posts: 128 Thanks: 154 Thanked 54 Times in 36 Posts	Sounds about right to me. I've seen higher and and a little lower recently The large caliber S & W topbreaks have been appreciating well of late. Vintage Colt SAA prices are out of many peoples reach. Probably saying something you already know, but antique condition standards are a lot lower. A Luger in "fine" condition by antique standards would be considered just a shooter or at best a candidate for Thor. __________________ Rich

04-14-2006, 09:26 PM	#5
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,652 Thanks: 3,210 Thanked 2,612 Times in 969 Posts	Ed You probably have already looked at it but "Flayderman's Guide to Antique Amereican Firearms has a writeup on this pistol. Keep in touch. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

04-14-2006, 09:28 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	ED, you need to get at least $5.00 back and return the UGLIEST holster I have ever seen in my life (BUT it IS a NICE .44 S&W... congrats on that!) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-14-2006, 08:31 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	Thanks Rich, was $620 out the door too much you think? Not that it matters, it is staying on the wall Ed

04-14-2006, 10:26 PM	#8
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Ed, Nice old Smith you have there !! 44 Russian is the forerunner to the 44 Spl and was a modification ( a bit longer ) of the 44 American that was the cartridge introduced in S&W large double action pistols... Is this a period holster ?? I would believe so as it has a ``gunfighter slot`` on the body...This is used when the pistol is twisted so the front trigger guard rests in that slot. It gives you a full clearance af the grip & trigger for that fast first shot...It was popular back then in the gunfighter's day... Pic of a 1909 vintage 38-40 Bisley with period holster. Please note the similar ``gunfighter slot``... Not Lugers but these old guns are also interesting... MARC

04-14-2006, 10:30 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	nice Bisley Marc, didn't know you like these! I want to get a 1st gen SSA, but that will have to be eventually. Ed

04-14-2006, 11:11 PM	#10
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	Ed, Looks like a Mexican holster alright, with those "zebra striped" rattlesnakes and Gila Monsters on it. All you have to do to get a 1st Gen SAA is sell 5 or 6 high end Loogers! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

04-14-2006, 11:25 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,591 Times in 2,114 Posts	I know Hugh, even a ratty, ratty one is what a nice luger costs __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-15-2006, 10:14 PM	#12
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I had no idea you guys were interested in guns other than Lugers. I bought a big collection of Smiths and others last year, many superb old models NIB, and have gradually sold most of them off. Maybe some of you would be interested in a few I have left, such as a nice U.S marked Schofield, a Bekeart .22, S&W New Model 1 1/2, a NIB model 39, etc. Would love to trade for Lugers..........