Finnish Luger from WWI??

[tsellati]

I recently purchased a DWM Model 1914 Luger that is SA-marked and has a replacement 120mm Tikkakoski barrel. I am curious to know how common or uncommon is this Finnish Luger "variant" compared to the recently imported Finnish m/23 and M.08 pistols? Also, can anyone point me in the direction of websites where I may learn more about the history of these particular Finnish Lugers?

Thanks for the education.

Tim

[tsellati]

After some digging and web-surfing I now am wondering whether this pistol might have been returned to Finland by "a Finnish volunteer that had travelled to Germany in 1915 - 1916 had received German military training and had been battle-hardened as "Prussian Jaeger Battalion 27" in battles of eastern front". If this is the case then I suspect these WWI Lugers pressed into service during the Winter and Continuation Wars are quite rare. It really is amazing to think of the number of wars this pistol has been used in and survived!!!

I had her at the range the other day and she performed beautifully!

Any idea whether the Finnish Army had specifically manufactured 9mm ammunition for their Parabellums and Lahtis or is it true that many soldiers used the MG 9mm rounds in their pistols!?!

Tim

[John Sabato]

Machinegun ammo is generally too hot for Lugers... it will digest them, but has been known to cause parts breakage. I would recommend a steady diet of Winchester 9mm 115 grain FMJ in the 100 round bulk box available at your local walmart for about $11.00... Your Tikka barreled Luger should be a tack-driver! Welcome to the Lugerforum.

[Luke]

Tim -

I don't understand the exact mechanical failure mechanism but the following two facts support John's comments, above.

1. The Finnish Army did use MG 9mm that was much hotter than present day ammunition.

2. I have observed four Finnish Parabellums with what appears to be unnumbered Mauser rear toggle link replacements.

I have inquired on Jan Still's forum about the nature of failures induced by the hotter 9mm ammunition, but I am not sure anyone has the answer.

By the way, I use the WalMart 100pack 115gr FMJ that John suggested with no problems.

Luke

[tsellati]

Yes, I too have been feeding both my Luger and a 1944 byf P-38 plenty of Walmart 115gr 9mm Luger ammo ! I was more curious about what the Finns might have used/manufactured during wartime as I likle to try and collect a box or two of period-appropriate ammunition for the firearms in my collection. Any one that might have a box of Finnish 9mm they are willing to part with, just name a price and drop me an email (tsellati@earthlink.net).

Tim

[tsellati]

I had another question for you marking aficiodanos. I was curious why this DWM 1914 Luger sports three of the same stamps next to the Imperial Eagle . According to the markings listed for this model under Technical Information there should be one mark that looks like a "Crown over a C" and then two that look like a "Crown over a S".

Any thoughts?

Tim

[Dwight Gruber]

Tim,

The Imperial right-reciever markings shown in the Technical Information drawing are examples only.

The c/letter stamps certify passage of various inspection benchmarks, and represent indivisual inspectors. The leftmost stamp certifies proper hardening of the reciever and application of the chamber date; the middle stamp certifies completion of the pistol; and the last stamp certifies shooting-in and final acceptance.

The stamps themselves are the hallmarks of individual Army Inspectors. Each inspector (there were many) was assigned a stamp comprised of an Imperial crown surmounting the first letter of their last name. The right-reciever stamps can thus be combinations of many different stamps, depending on which inspector happened to be assigned to the factory at any given time, and happened to inspect the particular gun.

--Dwight

[some_finn]

Originally posted by tsellati
I was more curious about what the Finns might have used/manufactured during wartime as I likle to try and collect a box or two of period-appropriate ammunition for the firearms in my collection.

IIRC during WW2 the Finnish Army only had one 9mm load that was used in both pistols and SMGs. I'll have to check the performance figures but I believe it was pretty serious SMG/+P stuff, loaded hot to make sure the SMGs functioned in adverse conditions.

After the war a much milder load was developed especially for the Parabellum as they began to suffer many breakages especially in the toggles.

Your theory about the Jaeger connection sounds quite plausible. The Jaegers returned to take part in our war of indepence that turned into a civil war in 1917-18 (btw the bloodiest ever in Europe, naturally) and were the first-line strike force of the white army.
If so, the gun really has taken part in more wars than they generally do. Very interesting!

[tsellati]

I will have to keep my eye out for some of this Finnish 9mm SMG ammo. Obviously not to shoot as I would not want to damage my Parabellum .

Thanks for the thoughts on the history of this pistol, it is no wonder that the barrel is a TIkkakoski replacement as the original was likley "shot out" from use in so many conflicts .

Tim

[Pete Ebbink]

Another one for sale in the USA :

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/sho...temid=CRFIPO82

[some_finn]

Originally posted by tsellati
I was more curious about what the Finns might have used/manufactured during wartime as I likle to try and collect a box or two of period-appropriate ammunition for the firearms in my collection.

About the Finnish WW2 ammo, I did some checking. Both Sako and VPT (Valtion patruunatehdas, The State Cartridge Works) manufactured 9mm ammo. Both used 7,5 gram (115gr) bullets, mostly tombac jacketed but later in the war also tombac washed steel jackets. The load was pretty stiff, giving about 395 m/s (1300 fps) so really not a good idea to shoot it in a Parabellum!

The cartridge boxes will read something like "9mm Pistoolin patruunia" with possibly "Parabellum" added. Mostly 50rd boxes I believe.

Sako cases will mostly have markings like "S-42" or "SO42" the latter part obviously being the year of manufacture. Some German made brass was used during late 30's, these will read "Sako 9mm".
VPT cases will "suprisingly" have VPT and a two digit year headstamp.

[tsellati]

Originally posted by some_finn
About the Finnish WW2 ammo, I did some checking. Both Sako and VPT (Valtion patruunatehdas, The State Cartridge Works) manufactured 9mm ammo. Both used 7,5 gram (115gr) bullets, mostly tombac jacketed but later in the war also tombac washed steel jackets. The load was pretty stiff, giving about 395 m/s (1300 fps) so really not a good idea to shoot it in a Parabellum!

The cartridge boxes will read something like "9mm Pistoolin patruunia" with possibly "Parabellum" added. Mostly 50rd boxes I believe.

Sako cases will mostly have markings like "S-42" or "SO42" the latter part obviously being the year of manufacture. Some German made brass was used during late 30's, these will read "Sako 9mm".
VPT cases will "suprisingly" have VPT and a two digit year headstamp.

Well, as remote a possibility as it may be, if you ever come across some of this wartime ammo please email me (tsellati@earthlink.net). You name a price and I'll send the money .

Tim