Interesting Luger

KarlJ · 09-06-2009, 12:16 PM

I saw an interesting Luger at my local gun shop today and I was wondering if you guys can tell me more about it.

It's being put on consignment by a woman who's husband brought it back from the War. Over the chamber is marked 1916 and the usual proofs appear on the right side of the breech block. The toggle is marked DWM with 72 on the link and loaded indicator. First look at the side plate shows number, but if you look at the underside, to the right of the trigger, on the bottom leg of the side plate it's marked 59. The take down lever is a different number, and there's a different number on the leg of the safety behind the side plate.... Ok, so my first thought is it's a mix master. But as I look at the frame, I can't find any marking. No markings including the serial number. The finish appears even and I can't see any signs of tampering. The stocks look original, or at least old enough to have been on it for a while. I checked the rear of the frame for numbers.... nothing, I even looked at the underside of the barrel, nothing... no proofs, no serial number.... It's going to be offered with the original looking tan hard shell holster.

Could is be a put together from a captured factory? I'll try and get some pictures posted tomorrow.

Edward Tinker · 09-06-2009, 12:25 PM

Well, no aresenals were captured in 1916 and the date was one of the final things to be done; so point is that a 1916 would not have been in the factory after two further years of war.

And the receiver and the top can easily have been swapped at some point.

I have a 1908 style (no stock lug) that is a friends for sale that doesn't have a serial number ANYWHERE except the rear of the frame...

Ed

KarlJ · 09-06-2009, 03:51 PM

I checked the rear frame... no numbers...

KarlJ · 09-07-2009, 08:56 PM

Here are the pictures.

I believe the stocks are plastic. the magazine is a new aftermarket.

No serial number or proof.

No marks here.

Some kind of eagle proof?

Is this just a parts gun? What would a fair price be? It comes with an unusual light tan holster with a hard shell flap and a small pouch on the front.

sheepherder · 09-07-2009, 09:17 PM

Interesting...How would you register it???

Here in NYS, I bet they would use the date stamp on the chamber as the serial number...

On one of my Lugers, the PO's/FFL's left off the letter after the serial number...and it's registered as a "DWM"...

KarlJ · 09-07-2009, 09:24 PM

I asked something similar.... Here in NH you don't have to register handguns, but how would a dealer transfer it to a buyer?

John Sabato · 09-07-2009, 10:04 PM

The photo of the front of the frame is not in clear enough focus to be sure if the gun was ever marked in this area. Please take a couple more close-ups of the front of the frame with the upper receiver removed. Also of the front of the upper receiver left side where a serial number would normally appear. While the finish on the gun seems somewhat uniform in the photos you have show, it may have had this finish a very long time, but that doesn't mean the gun has its original finish.

I also noticed that the gun has an unrelieved sear, which means that it cannot be cocked with the safety on.

This gun is marked in the commercial style, but that doesn't mean it wasn't used by a military officer as a private purchase gun.

Edward Tinker · 09-07-2009, 10:07 PM

Well, an army gun would also be marked on the left side.

Some kind of a put together mix master, post war; but which war is uncertain.

Although everyone says that it must have a serial nubmer, it was not till I think 1968 before that was required....

So, I would guess you'd talk your way into it being registered as one of the numbers on the left, the 1916 or the DWM...

There are better guns to buy unless it is a real steal in price

Ed

KarlJ · 09-07-2009, 10:14 PM

Thanks all.... The only other pic of the underside of the front of the frame is the following....

There's nothing there.... If it is a total mix of parts, what would it be worth? $700, $500?

Ron Wood · 09-07-2009, 11:35 PM

Looks like a "lunchbox" gun to me. Doesn't appear to have ever had a serial number (front of frame doesn't look shaved to me, but I could very well be wrong). Also looks like an Erfurt firing proof on the barrel (photo isn't sharp enough to say for sure). I'm pretty sure that Ed is correct that it could be registered/transfered without a serial number and just list "NSN" (no serial number on the form). Alternatively, the toggle number, 27, could be used as it is the most visible number (other than the date) on the gun. If you can snag that gun for $500-$700 (particularly with a "real" holster) it is a good buy.

09-06-2009, 12:16 PM	#1
KarlJ User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Interesting Luger I saw an interesting Luger at my local gun shop today and I was wondering if you guys can tell me more about it. It's being put on consignment by a woman who's husband brought it back from the War. Over the chamber is marked 1916 and the usual proofs appear on the right side of the breech block. The toggle is marked DWM with 72 on the link and loaded indicator. First look at the side plate shows number, but if you look at the underside, to the right of the trigger, on the bottom leg of the side plate it's marked 59. The take down lever is a different number, and there's a different number on the leg of the safety behind the side plate.... Ok, so my first thought is it's a mix master. But as I look at the frame, I can't find any marking. No markings including the serial number. The finish appears even and I can't see any signs of tampering. The stocks look original, or at least old enough to have been on it for a while. I checked the rear of the frame for numbers.... nothing, I even looked at the underside of the barrel, nothing... no proofs, no serial number.... It's going to be offered with the original looking tan hard shell holster. Could is be a put together from a captured factory? I'll try and get some pictures posted tomorrow.

09-06-2009, 12:25 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Well, no aresenals were captured in 1916 and the date was one of the final things to be done; so point is that a 1916 would not have been in the factory after two further years of war. And the receiver and the top can easily have been swapped at some point. I have a 1908 style (no stock lug) that is a friends for sale that doesn't have a serial number ANYWHERE except the rear of the frame... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-07-2009, 10:04 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The photo of the front of the frame is not in clear enough focus to be sure if the gun was ever marked in this area. Please take a couple more close-ups of the front of the frame with the upper receiver removed. Also of the front of the upper receiver left side where a serial number would normally appear. While the finish on the gun seems somewhat uniform in the photos you have show, it may have had this finish a very long time, but that doesn't mean the gun has its original finish. I also noticed that the gun has an unrelieved sear, which means that it cannot be cocked with the safety on. This gun is marked in the commercial style, but that doesn't mean it wasn't used by a military officer as a private purchase gun. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-07-2009, 10:07 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Well, an army gun would also be marked on the left side. Some kind of a put together mix master, post war; but which war is uncertain. Although everyone says that it must have a serial nubmer, it was not till I think 1968 before that was required.... So, I would guess you'd talk your way into it being registered as one of the numbers on the left, the 1916 or the DWM... There are better guns to buy unless it is a real steal in price Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-07-2009, 11:35 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	Looks like a "lunchbox" gun to me. Doesn't appear to have ever had a serial number (front of frame doesn't look shaved to me, but I could very well be wrong). Also looks like an Erfurt firing proof on the barrel (photo isn't sharp enough to say for sure). I'm pretty sure that Ed is correct that it could be registered/transfered without a serial number and just list "NSN" (no serial number on the form). Alternatively, the toggle number, 27, could be used as it is the most visible number (other than the date) on the gun. If you can snag that gun for $500-$700 (particularly with a "real" holster) it is a good buy. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-06-2009, 03:51 PM	#3
KarlJ User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I checked the rear frame... no numbers...

09-07-2009, 08:56 PM	#4
KarlJ User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here are the pictures. I believe the stocks are plastic. the magazine is a new aftermarket. No serial number or proof. No marks here. Some kind of eagle proof? Is this just a parts gun? What would a fair price be? It comes with an unusual light tan holster with a hard shell flap and a small pouch on the front.

09-07-2009, 09:17 PM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Interesting...How would you register it??? Here in NYS, I bet they would use the date stamp on the chamber as the serial number... On one of my Lugers, the PO's/FFL's left off the letter after the serial number...and it's registered as a "DWM"...

09-07-2009, 09:24 PM	#6
KarlJ User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I asked something similar.... Here in NH you don't have to register handguns, but how would a dealer transfer it to a buyer?

09-07-2009, 10:14 PM	#9
KarlJ User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 28 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks all.... The only other pic of the underside of the front of the frame is the following.... There's nothing there.... If it is a total mix of parts, what would it be worth? $700, $500?