My 1917 Artillery

Fletch · 11-20-2005, 08:08 PM

[IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\fletchec\Desktop[/IMG]

Greetings from Down Under

I am a new member of this group. Attached (I hope) is a photo of the markings on my 1917 DWM Artilley. I am keen to find any history of this weapon that other members may be able to assist me with or direct me to.

Fletch

Edward Tinker · 11-20-2005, 08:20 PM

Fletch, welcome to the forum!

You have to upload a phot. Two ways to do so, upper right corner is an upload, you do that, and COPY the URL, then place the url here or clcik IMG to make it an image.

Ensure you use Add Reply and not quick reply, then you can upload one picture at a time.

Ed

Fletch · 11-20-2005, 08:32 PM

Thanks Ed, I worked out what I did wrong then the file was too large, so will try again tomorrow, as I am at work now. Takes me a while sometimes.

Fletch

c3006 · 11-21-2005, 07:31 AM

Fletch
Do you need any kind of special permit to own a handgun down under?
Thanks clint

Fletch · 11-21-2005, 06:58 PM

Clint
Restrictions are very tight and vary from state to state. In West Aussie we need a Collector's Licence, issued by the police and you have to sign a document saying it will not leave your premises and will not be fired!

Fletch

Craig · 11-21-2005, 07:32 PM

G-Day Fletch
Having lived in OZ for 18 years in the outback (Alice Springs N.T.) I'm still amazed at how my aussie buddies changed all the gun rules after the shooting in Taz.

Cheers
Craig

Fletch · 11-21-2005, 11:49 PM

Hi Craig

You had it good in the Territory. The laws in WA have always been tough. The nonsense after Port Arthur means the politicians have made the country safer by taking my 10/22 but allowing me to have a 338 Win Mag and a 300 Win Mag. I think politicians are pretty much the same everywhere!

Fletch

mauro · 11-22-2005, 02:35 PM

Hello Fletch,
Welcome to the Luger Forum.
Nice pistol.
Do you have accessories too?
Ciao
Mauro
http://www.lugerlp08.com

Fletch · 11-22-2005, 09:12 PM

HI Mauro

I have the holster and stock with the tool and cleaning rod and the leather strapping. I don't have the magazine pouch.

It is a really nice firearm and i would like to find out more about it. I have read the glowing reports on your book.

Regards
Fletch

Big Norm · 11-26-2005, 10:47 PM

Fletch,
it looks like you might have a nice rig. Does the stock have a serial number on the iron that matches to guns serial number? Does the magazine also have the matching serial number? What is the date, and who was the manufacturer of the holster? Your pictures are nice, but we need more of them.
Big Norm

Fletch · 11-27-2005, 09:14 AM

Hi Norm

The magazine does not have a matching number (260), nor does the iron on the stock (552). The holser has Berlin, 1917 and the manufacturer's name over-arching Berlin, but I am unable to read it. More photos as suggested.

All the best
fletch

Fletch · 11-27-2005, 09:18 AM

More Photos,

Fletch

Fletch · 11-27-2005, 09:19 AM

Another

Fletch · 11-27-2005, 09:20 AM

Last one

Big Norm · 11-29-2005, 08:14 PM

Fletch,
I got your email but I thought that I would respond on the forum jut n case others might want to add something that I forgot. Congradulations on your purchase. The wear on this almost 90 year old gun gives it an air of authenticity. Your holster is also a valuable authentic holster. To find an original holster with the cup and the straps is indeed a rare find nowadays. Don't let the wear make you think that it is junk. An authentic holster with the strap and the cup can sometimes sell for as much as the gun itself. Take good care of it.

Your artillery luger is what is called a transitional artillery. By that I mean that both the front and the real sights did not have a sight adjustible screw on them. But some 1917's had both adjusting screws, some had one or the other and some had neither. DWM did not stop puting these screws on them until later in that contract year. Approximately 90,000 of the 1917 artilleries were made. The most of all artilleries. If you take that gun apart, you will see a two digit serial number on all parts except for the springs. On your luger, this number will be '30'. The grips should also have this two digit number underneath. But don't get mad if its not there.

****Be VERY, VERY careful how you take the left hand grip off. It can break a small splinter off at the thumb safety if you are reckless. This is not reparable.

Your rear sight should have the two digit serial number in a number of places. (1) on the rear of the sight just under the 'V', (2) on the distance gauge arm right just under the sight mentioned in (1), (3) on the left side of the tang sight adjustible blade and (4) on the front of the sights base.

Sometimes there is a serial number on the base of the front sight.

There is a number just under the four digit serial number on the bottom of your barrel. I can't read it from your picture. This number is just a measurement of the bore taken at the time of manufacture and has no relavence after all these years.

Your stock should have a full serial number including the small cap letter (maybe) on the top of the attaching iron. I say maybe because some Lugers don't have a small cap letter in their serial number. The stock should also have a proof mark on the woods side just below the screws that holds the flap strap to the stock. A quick look will make it look like the horse on a chess board. A closser look will show it to look like a fancy 'S'.

A recommended must have book for reading about WW1 Lugers would be Jan Stills book "Imperial Lugers And Their Accessories". Jan came out with another publishing of this book and he might still have some more left over. My last address for Jan is :
Jan Still
P.O. Box 240188
Douglas, Alaska 99824 USA
My approximate cost for the book is around $65 (US)

This book might be purchased on Ebay for more or less. I don't know of problems that you might have buying this book on Ebay since you are from Australia. There are other books, such as Mauro's book, but the Stills book is the first one that I would buy. Its a good beginner book.
Big Norm

Fletch · 11-30-2005, 12:05 AM

Big Norm

Thanks for the advice, and the information. I am really happy with the gun and have had it for a few years. I am now motivated top learn more about it, and you have been a great help. I have ordered Mauro's book and will track down the other one.

Fletch

Pete Ebbink · 11-30-2005, 03:29 PM

You can buy luger books directly from the author, Jan Still, at the following web site.

The "Imperial" luger books is currently out-of-print and used ones are very expensive...Jan will be doing a reprinting in the near future, I hear.

http://stillsbooks.com/

11-20-2005, 08:08 PM	#1
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My 1917 Artillery [IMG]C:\Documents and Settings\fletchec\Desktop[/IMG] Greetings from Down Under I am a new member of this group. Attached (I hope) is a photo of the markings on my 1917 DWM Artilley. I am keen to find any history of this weapon that other members may be able to assist me with or direct me to. Fletch

11-20-2005, 08:20 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Fletch, welcome to the forum! You have to upload a phot. Two ways to do so, upper right corner is an upload, you do that, and COPY the URL, then place the url here or clcik IMG to make it an image. Ensure you use Add Reply and not quick reply, then you can upload one picture at a time. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-21-2005, 07:31 AM	#4
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Fletch Do you need any kind of special permit to own a handgun down under? Thanks clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

11-21-2005, 07:32 PM	#6
Craig User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Plano Texas Posts: 58 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	G-Day Fletch Having lived in OZ for 18 years in the outback (Alice Springs N.T.) I'm still amazed at how my aussie buddies changed all the gun rules after the shooting in Taz. Cheers Craig __________________ In God we trust, all others we monitor!

11-22-2005, 02:35 PM	#8
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Fletch, Welcome to the Luger Forum. Nice pistol. Do you have accessories too? Ciao Mauro http://www.lugerlp08.com __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

11-20-2005, 08:32 PM	#3
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed, I worked out what I did wrong then the file was too large, so will try again tomorrow, as I am at work now. Takes me a while sometimes. Fletch

11-21-2005, 06:58 PM	#5
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Clint Restrictions are very tight and vary from state to state. In West Aussie we need a Collector's Licence, issued by the police and you have to sign a document saying it will not leave your premises and will not be fired! Fletch

11-21-2005, 11:49 PM	#7
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Craig You had it good in the Territory. The laws in WA have always been tough. The nonsense after Port Arthur means the politicians have made the country safer by taking my 10/22 but allowing me to have a 338 Win Mag and a 300 Win Mag. I think politicians are pretty much the same everywhere! Fletch

11-22-2005, 09:12 PM	#9
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	HI Mauro I have the holster and stock with the tool and cleaning rod and the leather strapping. I don't have the magazine pouch. It is a really nice firearm and i would like to find out more about it. I have read the glowing reports on your book. Regards Fletch

11-26-2005, 10:47 PM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Fletch, it looks like you might have a nice rig. Does the stock have a serial number on the iron that matches to guns serial number? Does the magazine also have the matching serial number? What is the date, and who was the manufacturer of the holster? Your pictures are nice, but we need more of them. Big Norm

11-27-2005, 09:14 AM	#11
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Norm The magazine does not have a matching number (260), nor does the iron on the stock (552). The holser has Berlin, 1917 and the manufacturer's name over-arching Berlin, but I am unable to read it. More photos as suggested. All the best fletch Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2005, 09:18 AM	#12
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More Photos, Fletch Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2005, 09:19 AM	#13
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2005, 09:20 AM	#14
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Last one Attached Thumbnails

11-29-2005, 08:14 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Fletch, I got your email but I thought that I would respond on the forum jut n case others might want to add something that I forgot. Congradulations on your purchase. The wear on this almost 90 year old gun gives it an air of authenticity. Your holster is also a valuable authentic holster. To find an original holster with the cup and the straps is indeed a rare find nowadays. Don't let the wear make you think that it is junk. An authentic holster with the strap and the cup can sometimes sell for as much as the gun itself. Take good care of it. Your artillery luger is what is called a transitional artillery. By that I mean that both the front and the real sights did not have a sight adjustible screw on them. But some 1917's had both adjusting screws, some had one or the other and some had neither. DWM did not stop puting these screws on them until later in that contract year. Approximately 90,000 of the 1917 artilleries were made. The most of all artilleries. If you take that gun apart, you will see a two digit serial number on all parts except for the springs. On your luger, this number will be '30'. The grips should also have this two digit number underneath. But don't get mad if its not there. ****Be VERY, VERY careful how you take the left hand grip off. It can break a small splinter off at the thumb safety if you are reckless. This is not reparable. Your rear sight should have the two digit serial number in a number of places. (1) on the rear of the sight just under the 'V', (2) on the distance gauge arm right just under the sight mentioned in (1), (3) on the left side of the tang sight adjustible blade and (4) on the front of the sights base. Sometimes there is a serial number on the base of the front sight. There is a number just under the four digit serial number on the bottom of your barrel. I can't read it from your picture. This number is just a measurement of the bore taken at the time of manufacture and has no relavence after all these years. Your stock should have a full serial number including the small cap letter (maybe) on the top of the attaching iron. I say maybe because some Lugers don't have a small cap letter in their serial number. The stock should also have a proof mark on the woods side just below the screws that holds the flap strap to the stock. A quick look will make it look like the horse on a chess board. A closser look will show it to look like a fancy 'S'. A recommended must have book for reading about WW1 Lugers would be Jan Stills book "Imperial Lugers And Their Accessories". Jan came out with another publishing of this book and he might still have some more left over. My last address for Jan is : Jan Still P.O. Box 240188 Douglas, Alaska 99824 USA My approximate cost for the book is around $65 (US) This book might be purchased on Ebay for more or less. I don't know of problems that you might have buying this book on Ebay since you are from Australia. There are other books, such as Mauro's book, but the Stills book is the first one that I would buy. Its a good beginner book. Big Norm

11-30-2005, 12:05 AM	#16
Fletch User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Big Norm Thanks for the advice, and the information. I am really happy with the gun and have had it for a few years. I am now motivated top learn more about it, and you have been a great help. I have ordered Mauro's book and will track down the other one. Fletch

11-30-2005, 03:29 PM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	You can buy luger books directly from the author, Jan Still, at the following web site. The "Imperial" luger books is currently out-of-print and used ones are very expensive...Jan will be doing a reprinting in the near future, I hear. http://stillsbooks.com/