GunBroker Caution...

Pete Ebbink · 10-04-2005, 09:29 PM

If I am not mistaken, I think these guns were offered on the last big Rock Island Auction...wonder if this G-B seller actually has them in West Lake Village, CA (near Thousand Oaks, CA) or not...??? Looked like reworks...

The seller is new to G-B and has a "zero" feedback score...

Caution, Wil Robinson...!!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Sel...sp?User=620197

Herb · 10-04-2005, 09:37 PM

Pete, they sure look like the same ones to me, the pictures are identical.

c3006 · 10-04-2005, 09:42 PM

Check out the same guy bidding them up to the reserve. clint

Dwight Gruber · 10-04-2005, 11:17 PM

I have the two 1900 models on record as being from a Gregg Martin auction.

--Dwight

Brent B. · 10-06-2005, 09:12 AM

Did you notice all the listings have vanished. Any idea if they sold or were withdrawn?

Ron Smith · 10-06-2005, 09:41 AM

Hi Brent, They probably got busted.

BTW, still working on it... Will let you know soon.

Ron

George Anderson · 10-06-2005, 10:37 AM

The two I was watching simply expired due to time without reaching the reserve. I emailed the seller requestiong additional photos and got no respones at all.

Pete Ebbink · 10-06-2005, 07:29 PM

Got an email and web site link from this outfit...looks like they are now out of the UK...

http://www.antiquegunscorp.com/_/index.html

Here is the text of their email to me :

" Hello,

Thank you for your interest.

If you are still interested in my DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol, please let me know.
REGARDING ITEM #: 38179517
ITEM TITLE: DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=38179517
Price: $2,500.00

The gun is located in London, UK.

It is gun is fully functional, and shootable. All components are original and all serial numbers are matching.

If you need more information or other pictures let me know.

DESCRIPTION:
=============
DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Serial no. 4029, 9mm, 6-inch barrel. Front sight stamped 1916. Blued finish.Top of breech marked 1916. Crown over M proofs. Toggle marked 100. Checkered walnut grips. Wood based magazine with matching numbers. Condition: Very good. Retaining approximately 85-90% finish with scattered light wear overall. Faded straw colors. Grips showing light wear and bruises. Mechanically sound.

You if you are also interested in my other antique firearms and accesories please visit my website: http://www.AntiqueGunsCorp.com

As shipping carrier i will use Pegasus Cargo Carrier so you will receive your package in 5 working days at most. The delivery will be door-to-door so you just have to be home to sign for delivery.

To protect my business I have adopted the following polices:

- I will ship the package first and I will email you the tracking number.
- You have 7 days inspection period and if you feel that is something wrong you can return it and you'll receive a full refound less shipping costs.
- When you will see the package is moving, I want you to send me the payment confirmation in the same day or the day after.
- As a payment method I have chosen Western Union's services because they always served our interests in a professional manner and helped me gain buyers. I consider promptitude a vital condition on the modern eCommerce markets and a guarantee of quality.

Nobody forces you to accept it. If you don't agree, I believe it would be better that none of us lose his time for nothing.

If the terms and conditions above are suitable for you and you decide to purchase please email me back with your full name and address to prepare the package and I will send you the payment details.
In the same day you confirm your shipping information I will make the S&H arrangements and schedule a pickup with Pegasus Cargo Carrier.

I look forward to a favorable reply and just as soon as I receive it, I will send you my payment address.

Kindest regards,

Tom Delmar
www.AntiqueGunsCorp.com "

lugercollector · 10-06-2005, 10:49 PM

If the gun is in the UK....how can it arrive in the USA in 5 days without BATF approval....Customs inspections, etc etc???..

George Anderson · 10-07-2005, 08:04 AM

Like Pete, I have received an offer for direct sale of the long barrel for $500. This is a total scam and has nothing to do with the British outfit he mentions. The way it works is that he sends you a box of rocks by the "Pegasus" carrier. As soon as he emails you the tracking number to prove that the item is on the way, you WIRE him the payment. Next, you get a "box of rocks" and he evaporates into thin air.

Several months ago the exact same method was used following a high priced Ebay LP08 holster auction. Every detail was the same including the "Pegasus" carrier. Scams like this only work by playing on a person's greed, which makes me quite susceptible.

I think I will forward the bogus offer I received to AntiqueGunsCorp.com and see what their response is.

Edward Tinker · 10-07-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by George Anderson
... This is a total scam and has nothing to do with the British outfit he mentions. The way it works is that he sends you a box of rocks by the "Pegasus" carrier. As soon as he emails you the tracking number to prove that the item is on the way, you WIRE him the payment. Next, you get a "box of rocks" and he evaporates into thin air.

ahhhh, my son had his motorcycle stolen while in Iraq, so he was anxious to get a new one... On e-bay is a scam very much like this for motorcycles, tractors, etc., the scam centers around a "trusted" site that the seller uses, you send the money to the seller and if you aren't happy the trusted site sends you your money back.. Of course it is all a scam, the trusted site is not for this, it is for disputes as a mediator site, and your money is gone.

The old adage, if the deal is too good, then don't be an idiot

Ron Smith · 10-07-2005, 10:05 AM

Did anyone notice that in all of the "boilerplate". That there is no mention of import/export regulations, laws, or restrictions?

Aaron · 10-07-2005, 01:03 PM

I've done a study of these great deals out of the UK, and of course they are total scams. Notice the inexpert use of the english language, very atypical for a person raised in the UK. Why from the UK? This country is infested with immigrants, mostly illegal, who are the scum of the earth. They primarily come from eastern European countries, but also include many con men from Africa. Their most popular game is to send you USPS money orders in excess of the purchase price and you refund the overpayment to them via Western Union. DO NOT enter into any transaction in which you are required to transmit funds via Western Union. This is the tool used by criminals to fleece you out of your money. The money orders are absolutely phony. If you receive a USPS money order from ANYONE you don't know, the post office has a device which will determine if it is counterfeit. Usually the post office will not cash large MOs, but the clerk will authenticate it and sign it, so you can deposit it in the bank with confidence.

Pete Ebbink · 10-07-2005, 02:55 PM

I have been trading emails with a fellow behind this G-B ad...named "Tom Delmar".

He uses the same email as the UK web site with all the photos of stores around the world and the big listing of guns for sale. I suspect the UK outfit may not exist, either...

Cannot imagine someone who can put such a nice web site together writes English so badly...what a bunch of scum-balls...!

http://www.antiquegunscorp.com/_/index.html

I will keep the email conversation going as long as they reply...then will turn over the email string to the G-B folks and maybe even our BATF...since they are offering to send pistols into the USA without any mention/concern for BATF regulations...

Edward Tinker · 10-07-2005, 03:30 PM

hmmm, London 'ey?

Notice a few things;

The visitor number doesn't change, because the entire webpage is simply one large picture.

140 Park Lane is next to Hyde park, if I remember right, that is residential? And look at the guns in the pictures...

And amazingly enough, they don't come up under antique gun shops in London, if in business for 20 years same location...

zinfull · 10-07-2005, 05:19 PM

You know for being in England he has more guns than a good gun shop in the US. Hope you bust him.

Ron Smith · 10-07-2005, 06:09 PM

The guy also uses first person." I want you to"....." I will ship"..... "I will use...."

A company, especially a British Company, employee would use "we".

I work for the second largest Muzzle Loading and Mountain man Rendesvouz supply company in the US. We all refer to the company as "we" when dealing with a customer. And we're just a bunch of Oregon Ridgerunners.

Ron

George Anderson · 10-07-2005, 10:48 PM

Ron, I thought you all would have referred to yourselves as "we'uns".

Rod WMG · 10-08-2005, 01:15 PM

In my limited correspondence with Ron I've found he is prone to saying "us'uns." I would have thought that to be a more southern affectation, but....

Pete Ebbink · 10-08-2005, 03:56 PM

Guys,

This fellow "Tom" (maybe Stacy Green) actually sent me 10 more photos of the M1914 Navy I inquired about. All of the photos are from the current or past Greg Martin auctions (...Dwight was right and I was wrong in my 1st posting...when I thought the photos on G-B were from the RIA site...).

I have bundled up the entire email string and the G-B ad that I saved as a Word file and sent it to the following folks.

This guy actually offered to sell and ship the luger from the UK without any importation or customs paperwork. I have also sent these agencies the ISP info. Ed posted for us...

Here are the folks that got the info from me :

* BATF
* FBI
* Home Land Security
* CA State Department of Justice
* Folks at Gun Broker
* Folks at Greg Martin auctions
* Trying to find a contact for Interpol, as well...

Maybe this fellow will get some loud knocking on his door in Costa Mesa...soon...

10-04-2005, 09:29 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	GunBroker Caution... If I am not mistaken, I think these guns were offered on the last big Rock Island Auction...wonder if this G-B seller actually has them in West Lake Village, CA (near Thousand Oaks, CA) or not...??? Looked like reworks... The seller is new to G-B and has a "zero" feedback score... Caution, Wil Robinson...!!! http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Sel...sp?User=620197

10-04-2005, 09:37 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, they sure look like the same ones to me, the pictures are identical. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-04-2005, 09:42 PM	#3
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Check out the same guy bidding them up to the reserve. clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

10-06-2005, 09:41 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Brent, They probably got busted. BTW, still working on it... Will let you know soon. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-07-2005, 10:05 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Did anyone notice that in all of the "boilerplate". That there is no mention of import/export regulations, laws, or restrictions? __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-04-2005, 11:17 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	I have the two 1900 models on record as being from a Gregg Martin auction. --Dwight

10-06-2005, 09:12 AM	#5
Brent B. User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 176 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Did you notice all the listings have vanished. Any idea if they sold or were withdrawn?

10-06-2005, 10:37 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	The two I was watching simply expired due to time without reaching the reserve. I emailed the seller requestiong additional photos and got no respones at all.

10-06-2005, 07:29 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Got an email and web site link from this outfit...looks like they are now out of the UK... http://www.antiquegunscorp.com/_/index.html Here is the text of their email to me : " Hello, Thank you for your interest. If you are still interested in my DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol, please let me know. REGARDING ITEM #: 38179517 ITEM TITLE: DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=38179517 Price: $2,500.00 The gun is located in London, UK. It is gun is fully functional, and shootable. All components are original and all serial numbers are matching. If you need more information or other pictures let me know. DESCRIPTION: ============= DWM Model 1914 Naval Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Serial no. 4029, 9mm, 6-inch barrel. Front sight stamped 1916. Blued finish.Top of breech marked 1916. Crown over M proofs. Toggle marked 100. Checkered walnut grips. Wood based magazine with matching numbers. Condition: Very good. Retaining approximately 85-90% finish with scattered light wear overall. Faded straw colors. Grips showing light wear and bruises. Mechanically sound. You if you are also interested in my other antique firearms and accesories please visit my website: http://www.AntiqueGunsCorp.com As shipping carrier i will use Pegasus Cargo Carrier so you will receive your package in 5 working days at most. The delivery will be door-to-door so you just have to be home to sign for delivery. To protect my business I have adopted the following polices: - I will ship the package first and I will email you the tracking number. - You have 7 days inspection period and if you feel that is something wrong you can return it and you'll receive a full refound less shipping costs. - When you will see the package is moving, I want you to send me the payment confirmation in the same day or the day after. - As a payment method I have chosen Western Union's services because they always served our interests in a professional manner and helped me gain buyers. I consider promptitude a vital condition on the modern eCommerce markets and a guarantee of quality. Nobody forces you to accept it. If you don't agree, I believe it would be better that none of us lose his time for nothing. If the terms and conditions above are suitable for you and you decide to purchase please email me back with your full name and address to prepare the package and I will send you the payment details. In the same day you confirm your shipping information I will make the S&H arrangements and schedule a pickup with Pegasus Cargo Carrier. I look forward to a favorable reply and just as soon as I receive it, I will send you my payment address. Kindest regards, Tom Delmar www.AntiqueGunsCorp.com "

10-06-2005, 10:49 PM	#9
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	If the gun is in the UK....how can it arrive in the USA in 5 days without BATF approval....Customs inspections, etc etc???..

10-07-2005, 08:04 AM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Like Pete, I have received an offer for direct sale of the long barrel for $500. This is a total scam and has nothing to do with the British outfit he mentions. The way it works is that he sends you a box of rocks by the "Pegasus" carrier. As soon as he emails you the tracking number to prove that the item is on the way, you WIRE him the payment. Next, you get a "box of rocks" and he evaporates into thin air. Several months ago the exact same method was used following a high priced Ebay LP08 holster auction. Every detail was the same including the "Pegasus" carrier. Scams like this only work by playing on a person's greed, which makes me quite susceptible. I think I will forward the bogus offer I received to AntiqueGunsCorp.com and see what their response is.

10-07-2005, 01:03 PM	#13
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I've done a study of these great deals out of the UK, and of course they are total scams. Notice the inexpert use of the english language, very atypical for a person raised in the UK. Why from the UK? This country is infested with immigrants, mostly illegal, who are the scum of the earth. They primarily come from eastern European countries, but also include many con men from Africa. Their most popular game is to send you USPS money orders in excess of the purchase price and you refund the overpayment to them via Western Union. DO NOT enter into any transaction in which you are required to transmit funds via Western Union. This is the tool used by criminals to fleece you out of your money. The money orders are absolutely phony. If you receive a USPS money order from ANYONE you don't know, the post office has a device which will determine if it is counterfeit. Usually the post office will not cash large MOs, but the clerk will authenticate it and sign it, so you can deposit it in the bank with confidence.

10-07-2005, 02:55 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I have been trading emails with a fellow behind this G-B ad...named "Tom Delmar". He uses the same email as the UK web site with all the photos of stores around the world and the big listing of guns for sale. I suspect the UK outfit may not exist, either... Cannot imagine someone who can put such a nice web site together writes English so badly...what a bunch of scum-balls...! http://www.antiquegunscorp.com/_/index.html I will keep the email conversation going as long as they reply...then will turn over the email string to the G-B folks and maybe even our BATF...since they are offering to send pistols into the USA without any mention/concern for BATF regulations...

10-07-2005, 03:30 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	hmmm, London 'ey? Notice a few things; The visitor number doesn't change, because the entire webpage is simply one large picture. 140 Park Lane is next to Hyde park, if I remember right, that is residential? And look at the guns in the pictures... And amazingly enough, they don't come up under antique gun shops in London, if in business for 20 years same location... Attached Images

10-07-2005, 05:19 PM	#16
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 244 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts	You know for being in England he has more guns than a good gun shop in the US. Hope you bust him.

10-07-2005, 06:09 PM	#17
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The guy also uses first person." I want you to"....." I will ship"..... "I will use...." A company, especially a British Company, employee would use "we". I work for the second largest Muzzle Loading and Mountain man Rendesvouz supply company in the US. We all refer to the company as "we" when dealing with a customer. And we're just a bunch of Oregon Ridgerunners. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

10-07-2005, 10:48 PM	#18
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Ron, I thought you all would have referred to yourselves as "we'uns".

10-08-2005, 01:15 PM	#19
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In my limited correspondence with Ron I've found he is prone to saying "us'uns." I would have thought that to be a more southern affectation, but....

10-08-2005, 03:56 PM	#20
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Guys, This fellow "Tom" (maybe Stacy Green) actually sent me 10 more photos of the M1914 Navy I inquired about. All of the photos are from the current or past Greg Martin auctions (...Dwight was right and I was wrong in my 1st posting...when I thought the photos on G-B were from the RIA site...). I have bundled up the entire email string and the G-B ad that I saved as a Word file and sent it to the following folks. This guy actually offered to sell and ship the luger from the UK without any importation or customs paperwork. I have also sent these agencies the ISP info. Ed posted for us... Here are the folks that got the info from me : * BATF * FBI * Home Land Security * CA State Department of Justice * Folks at Gun Broker * Folks at Greg Martin auctions * Trying to find a contact for Interpol, as well... Maybe this fellow will get some loud knocking on his door in Costa Mesa...soon...