new luger-JAM NO ****

[dennisr]

I finally got my first luger. It was sold as used, but was "as new in box." It is a Stoeger, actually made by AIMCO, Navy barrel, and apparently made in approx. 1997. OK, I accept moderate flaming for not buying a "real" luger, but I just had to have this. After 600 or so rounds I have the same recurring problem, depending on the load used, it will usually exchange the round but will not be cocked to fire. If I break the knuckle just slightly, and reclose it, it will **** and fire. Sometimes it may not even exchange the round, but most times it is as above.
In order to get it to perform at this level I have switched to a 115gr, Sellier and Bellot ammo (1260 fps per a rep at AIMCO). If I use the WalMart 115gr Win shells (rated at 1000fps) it will not kick the spent shell out all the way. the 124gr S/B shells respond just as the 115gr S/B rounds.

I have a luger guru in the Lincoln area that I can contact, but would be interested in any advice to focus on.
Dennis

[Dwight Gruber]

Dennis,

Two things occur to me.

One, the failure to **** the striker is often caused by a sticky disconnector pin. If you take off the sideplate, you will see a round, spring-loaded pin sticking out of the front of the sear bar--this round pin is what the trigger lever actually depresses to fire. Press it into the sear bar and see if there is any resistance to it coming back out smoothly.

A note of caution here, the striker pin on a Luger sticks out a fair distance from the breech face, and going into battery uncocked on a live round could result in slam-fire.

Two, the Luger requires a cartridge's entire recoil impulse to operate properly. Allowing the hand and wrist to take up some of this recoil--"limp-wristing"--is a major reason for ejection failure. Considering that this pistol is an Aimco rather than the real deal, it could just as easily be a recoil spring tuning problem, but a firm shooting grip is something which is much easier to check and rectify for starters.

Its good to know that you have a good Luger guy nearby, they are worth their weight in gold. Good luck, and good shooting--let us know how it all works out.

--Dwight

[dennisr]

Dwight:
thanx, I will check that out altho I think I already verified that the pin was operating as you mentioned. You talked about mainspring tuning. I talked to a leftover person at AIMCO and they mentioned that you couldn't do anything to the mainspring. Is that wrong, can it be adjusted or does it have to be cut to adjust it. This was where I thought I would have to go all along to get it "down tuned" for some lighter ammo.
Do you just use the WalMart type?
d

[Alx]

This is not flaming, but the experience I had with THREE of these Aimco Stoeger stainless steel Lugers. Maybe you can be spared the frustration and time wasted that I had to go thru before giving up on shooting these.
I tried many things to make my Aimco Lugers work, none of them were successful. A gunsmith tried too, but was not able. Their parts are not avalible on the gun parts market, and are mostly not interchangable with regular P08 Lugers.
My conclusion is that they are made of soft stainless steel, not adequatedly hardened to the extent a Luger's parts need to be reliable, and they are not engineered nor fitted accurately enough to function reliably, for extended shooting.
Other collectors also said that their Aimco Lugers had internally mushed up on them after moderate shooting.
IMHO, they are more to be regarded as collector items, a shiny white Luger copy whose parts are made of stainless steel, not just nickel or chrome plated.

[Zamo]

I came here today hoping to find just such a thread. My 1917 DWM is suffering a similar dilema. Today at lunch was the first time I've had a chance to shoot the thing, and it failed to re-**** with each firing.
From what I observed, it stripped a round perfectly on initial cocking, fired said round, correctly extracted and ejected the spent case, and then chambered the next subsequent cartridge into battery correctly. It was only when I tried squeezing the trigger harder and harder without a "Bang" that I realized something was amiss. I ejected the 2nd cartridge and examined it. There was no sign of any dimple on the primer what so ever. I jacked another cartridge in and it fired, but once again, the next round met an un-cocked action. I tried this yet a third time with exactly the same results.
I will go home tonight and perform an in depth observation using some of the points mentioned above.
One factor I should mention, the pistol is very near bone dry right now, as I am preparing to refinish it (Waiting on Mr. UPS to deliver the MolyResin...and just couldn't wait any longer, *POW*). Are Lugers particular to lubrication?
I am puzzled mostly by the fact that all the other key elements in the cycle worked just great. No "feeding" or "extracting" issues...just not re-cocked. This ammo functioned perfectly in my S/42 last week (when I finally caved in to Lust and fired two mags through it), so I don't think it's the ammo.
Any possibilities or ideas?

[Zamo]

After careful analysis, and some parts swapping between the faulty DWM 1917, and my 1937 S/42, it looks like it has something to do with the side plate assembly, and most likely the side plate bar.
It seems that it is a "seer disconnector" problem. Whereas if I keep the trigger pulled back while cycling the action, it does NOT click when I let up on the trigger and return to a cocked state. It just lets up, silently, and the pistol remains in a fired state. The side plate on the 1917 appears to be an aftermarket assembly of unknown type with a cast lever (seem visable down center axis), but otherwise looks to be close to original in apperance.
If I drop my S/42's sideplate in there, it works like gang-busters. However, this won't work as a permanent fix for obvious reasons.
Any suggestions?

[Zamo]

AH HA!
Seeing as nobody has seen fit to post a plausible explanation to my situation, I have decided to resolve it by myself.

It seems it isn't so much that the aftermarket sideplate is 100% bad, it's just...different...and innocent of being the real culpret in this malfunction. The true fiend, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the TRIGGER RETURN SPRING!!!

Indeed, if I hand-cycle the action I can now fully reproduce both the malfunction, AND it's resolution! By letting up on the trigger AND pushing it forward (thanks in great deal to Georg Lugers' nearly 3/4 crescent trigger design), I can get the "snick" which brings the action back to the cocked position. Where as just letting the (weak) trigger return spring push it back into place (about 50% of it's travel it seems), the side plate lever does not have sufficiant throw to disengage and allow the weapon to complete its cocking cycle.
I actually think there may be a conspiracy at play with these two villians, and I think it is both a weak trigger return spring, along with an incorrect bevel on the (reproduction) side plate lever which are combining to perpetrate this malfunction.
I am going to replace the spring and hand file a slightly better bevel (more akin to that found on the functioning S/42), and see if it improves it. If I screw the lever up, I replace it, and am in no worse situation than I am now.
I sure wish I had made this my own thread.
It gets lonely in here...

[John Sabato]

ZAMO,

This is the holidays... folks aren't hanging on the Lugerforum, they are likely with their families... try to be a little more patient when you want/need answers... the Luger expertise on this forum is unmatched anywhere on the internet.

You appear to have discovered the solution to your problem. I can recommend that you obtain the e-book by Gerard Henrotin on the Luger Mechanicals... you will find it a great help in understanding the engineering of the Luger design. You will find a link to his e-books in the Links and Resources page of this website.

[Zamo]

Oh John, I was kind of poking fun at myself. Hence the

Just wanted to follow up on this, and say that a hasty "field test" in the back yard had the 1917 DWM perform flawlessly through two magazines of ammo. I am very relieved, and proud of the troubleshooting and home gunsmithing I did to correct this situation.

The more I learn of the mechanics of this pistol, the more I appreciate it. What an amazing design. An evolutionary dead end in pistol development, compared with some of its peers, but what a marvelous dead end. Sort of like the P-51 Mustang in that respect at the dawn of the Jet age. Technically marvelous, but outdated none-the-less.
(I better not mention the M14 or 1911A1 as it seems the verdict is still out on these platforms...)
I'm just glad my "Shooter" shoots!

[TzDreamer]

John is so right! I check this site hourly but would have been so wrong in analyzing your issue! Now on the Garand I might have been some help!

Rob

[Lugerdoc]

Zarno et al, I sounds as though your lugers are cocking (striker is held back by the sear) but the trigger lever in your side plate is either not allowing the disconnector to push under it for the next shot or the lever is at the wrong angle to push the sear off of the striker. TH