First commercial - dumb questions !

Stu · 11-07-2002, 11:13 AM

Hi all. Well, just received my first commercial and wondered if I could seek some enlightenment.

1) How do we date these things ? Serial number is 6349 n on barrel and frame, (cannon not marked, what parts should be ?). DWM on toggle, crown / n proof on left side of breech and germany stamped on right of cannon, gesichert safety.

2) Should the trigger be serial numbered ? Mine is marked 48 whereas the sideplate has the correct 49 on the bottom edge ?
3) the inside of the sideplate is marked 63 and the lever is marked CN +. Do we understand these marks to mean anything ?

4) The takedown lever isn't checkered and the 'button' is the same diameter as the width of the arm, (as opposed to being wider than the arm and protruding above it). Is this aftermarket ?

5) The magazine is a Haenel Schmeisser alloy bottomed police issue item. Does this have a comparable value to a commercial magazine given similar condition ?
Ah well, another voyage of discovery; thanks for any comments, Stu

Photos to follow if I can repair the camera !

John Sabato · 11-07-2002, 12:04 PM

The HS alloy bottomed Police magazine is a collector piece in its own right in good condition...and also one of the best for functioning your Luger. Just because they are extruded or machined makes them much more valuable than an ordinary stamped magazines.

They sell on eBay occassionally and the prices I have seen in the last year or so have ranged from $75 to $150 each depending on who is selling and who is buying at any particular time.

I also own one of these fine magazines. Here is a photo of one from my Luger photo archive:

I have never owned a commercial Luger but someone else will be sure and answer your questions regarding your new purchase.

How about posting some photos of your new Luger?

Stu · 11-07-2002, 12:32 PM

Hi John, thanks for the comments, I'll post photos as soon as I fix my camera.

I've broached the idea of exchanging this police magazine for a commercial one with a board member; I'd just like to check that we arrive at an equitable trade.

I'll go fix the camera !

Ron Wood · 11-07-2002, 12:41 PM

The trigger should be serial numbered to the gun. It is unusual that your trigger is only one number off! Your gun appears to be a 1920 commercial made up from a prior military piece, so it could indicate that the trigger was switched out early on from the consecutive gun by a unit armorer during cleaning/maintenance, but that is only a WAG. The side plate is properly marked, the 63 on the inside being the first two numbers of the weapon's serial number. I have no idea what the CN+ mark is, although a "+" usually indicates an armorer's replacement. The takedown lever is a replacement and is of the type produced for the 1929 Swiss model.

Stu · 11-07-2002, 01:37 PM

Took a couple of pics but the camera is dying, (not to high tech 4 years ago !). This is only a shooter in 7.65. Best of all is I only paid around $75 more than it's worth, much less then usual !

pics of the magazine

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/RspClipstamp.jpg
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/RspClipbase.jpg
pics of the general gun
lh http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomlh2.jpg
rh http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomrh2.jpg

dubious takedown lever, (but it fits nicely)
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomtd.jpg

Any advice on the points in my first post gratefully received !

Stu · 11-07-2002, 01:40 PM

Thanks Ron. I'm intrigued as to which part is ex military ? The only markings I can see being the crown / n proof, one on the cannon and one on the breech block. I suppose I'm used to the wwII stuff with marks everywhere !

John Sabato · 11-07-2002, 02:10 PM

Stu,

I don't know what you paid, but I think it is a really nice looking shooter! Thanks for the pics. ...and that is definitely a swiss takedown lever.

Johnny Peppers · 11-07-2002, 02:13 PM

Stu,
According the Jan Still's "Weimar Lugers", your pistol was probably made in the 1924 time frame.

Stu · 11-07-2002, 02:30 PM

Thanks John & Johnny. The dating info helps a great deal. I shudder to confess I paid $500 where any sane person would have bailed earlier.

Now all I need to do is swap out the police magazine, find a commercial takedown, (should this be numbered ?), and a '49' trigger and I'm happy !

Oh, for those concerned, (I'm one of them), I'm not trying to boost the gun; it's a reblued shooter, I just have this itch to get things 'correct' !

Thanks, Stu

John Sabato · 11-07-2002, 04:11 PM

Stu,

Opinions are like elbows... everybody has them, but since your shooter has been reblued and has replaced parts, If it were mine (he said wishfully), I would keep the rugged precision extruded Haenel Schmeisser Police magazine because it is a dandy... and will function long after the "correct" stamped sheet metal with a blank wooden bottom magazine has died and gone to magazine heaven...

just my

Stu · 11-07-2002, 04:21 PM

You're probably right John ! I've just got an itch for the period components I suppose.

Maybe I can swap it for an extruded fxo to match my byf AND a commercial. Then I could use the fxo to shoot with [img]smile.gif[/img]

John Sabato · 11-07-2002, 04:28 PM

Now you're talking... that would be a good deal.

11-07-2002, 11:13 AM	#1
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	First commercial - dumb questions ! Hi all. Well, just received my first commercial and wondered if I could seek some enlightenment. 1) How do we date these things ? Serial number is 6349 n on barrel and frame, (cannon not marked, what parts should be ?). DWM on toggle, crown / n proof on left side of breech and germany stamped on right of cannon, gesichert safety. 2) Should the trigger be serial numbered ? Mine is marked 48 whereas the sideplate has the correct 49 on the bottom edge ? 3) the inside of the sideplate is marked 63 and the lever is marked CN +. Do we understand these marks to mean anything ? 4) The takedown lever isn't checkered and the 'button' is the same diameter as the width of the arm, (as opposed to being wider than the arm and protruding above it). Is this aftermarket ? 5) The magazine is a Haenel Schmeisser alloy bottomed police issue item. Does this have a comparable value to a commercial magazine given similar condition ? Ah well, another voyage of discovery; thanks for any comments, Stu Photos to follow if I can repair the camera !

11-07-2002, 12:04 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The HS alloy bottomed Police magazine is a collector piece in its own right in good condition...and also one of the best for functioning your Luger. Just because they are extruded or machined makes them much more valuable than an ordinary stamped magazines. They sell on eBay occassionally and the prices I have seen in the last year or so have ranged from $75 to $150 each depending on who is selling and who is buying at any particular time. I also own one of these fine magazines. Here is a photo of one from my Luger photo archive: I have never owned a commercial Luger but someone else will be sure and answer your questions regarding your new purchase. How about posting some photos of your new Luger? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-07-2002, 12:41 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The trigger should be serial numbered to the gun. It is unusual that your trigger is only one number off! Your gun appears to be a 1920 commercial made up from a prior military piece, so it could indicate that the trigger was switched out early on from the consecutive gun by a unit armorer during cleaning/maintenance, but that is only a WAG. The side plate is properly marked, the 63 on the inside being the first two numbers of the weapon's serial number. I have no idea what the CN+ mark is, although a "+" usually indicates an armorer's replacement. The takedown lever is a replacement and is of the type produced for the 1929 Swiss model. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-07-2002, 02:10 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Stu, I don't know what you paid, but I think it is a really nice looking shooter! Thanks for the pics. ...and that is definitely a swiss takedown lever. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-07-2002, 04:11 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Stu, Opinions are like elbows... everybody has them, but since your shooter has been reblued and has replaced parts, If it were mine (he said wishfully), I would keep the rugged precision extruded Haenel Schmeisser Police magazine because it is a dandy... and will function long after the "correct" stamped sheet metal with a blank wooden bottom magazine has died and gone to magazine heaven... just my __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-07-2002, 12:32 PM	#3
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi John, thanks for the comments, I'll post photos as soon as I fix my camera. I've broached the idea of exchanging this police magazine for a commercial one with a board member; I'd just like to check that we arrive at an equitable trade. I'll go fix the camera !

11-07-2002, 01:37 PM	#5
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Took a couple of pics but the camera is dying, (not to high tech 4 years ago !). This is only a shooter in 7.65. Best of all is I only paid around $75 more than it's worth, much less then usual ! pics of the magazine http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/RspClipstamp.jpg http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/RspClipbase.jpg pics of the general gun lh http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomlh2.jpg rh http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomrh2.jpg dubious takedown lever, (but it fits nicely) http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/rspcomtd.jpg Any advice on the points in my first post gratefully received !

11-07-2002, 01:40 PM	#6
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Thanks Ron. I'm intrigued as to which part is ex military ? The only markings I can see being the crown / n proof, one on the cannon and one on the breech block. I suppose I'm used to the wwII stuff with marks everywhere !

11-07-2002, 02:13 PM	#8
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stu, According the Jan Still's "Weimar Lugers", your pistol was probably made in the 1924 time frame.

11-07-2002, 02:30 PM	#9
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Thanks John & Johnny. The dating info helps a great deal. I shudder to confess I paid $500 where any sane person would have bailed earlier. Now all I need to do is swap out the police magazine, find a commercial takedown, (should this be numbered ?), and a '49' trigger and I'm happy ! Oh, for those concerned, (I'm one of them), I'm not trying to boost the gun; it's a reblued shooter, I just have this itch to get things 'correct' ! Thanks, Stu

11-07-2002, 04:21 PM	#11
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 451 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	You're probably right John ! I've just got an itch for the period components I suppose. Maybe I can swap it for an extruded fxo to match my byf AND a commercial. Then I could use the fxo to shoot with [img]smile.gif[/img]

11-07-2002, 04:28 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Now you're talking... that would be a good deal. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*