Occasional failure to fire

Revolvr · 08-01-2004, 03:50 PM

Hi all! I am looking for a bit of sage advice on solving a problem. I have a 1920's commercial .30 Luger I recently bought.

It loads fires and ejects flawwlessly - except for one minor problem.

Occasionally I pull on the trigger and nothing happens. The sear surfaces apparently do not disengage. If I pull the trigger again (maybe a few times), it will fire.

So my theory is that perhaps there may be just a bit of play between the firing pin and breechblock so that it might move just a bit with the sear bar as the trigger is pulled. Or possibly the engagement surfaces are a bit rough and it has trouble disengaging.

Another possibility is the sear bar was not an original part and needs a bit of fitting. All parts have matching numbers but there is no number on the sear bar. Should there be?

So I am thinking I could lightly stone the sear bar (the ramp) and ever so slightly radius the edge. I have done some trigger work on other guns so this isn't completely new to me.

But I would like to know if anyone else has seen this problem, and am I on the right track?

Thanks much,

-- Dan

Doug G. · 08-01-2004, 06:55 PM

Dan, I believe that you are partially on the right track. The proper method would be to remove thewear bar and "tweak" it. To do this slightly bend the bar so that the ends will go away from the pistol. I very little goes along way and you may need to experiment. Only after you get this close would I consider removing material.

unspellable · 08-02-2004, 06:35 PM

Before you start modifying anything, check to make sure the disconnector is working properly. I had a problem of this sort in which the disconnector occasionaly failed to re-connect after releasing the trigger. This could be a sticky disconnector but in my case proved to be a misfitted trigger lever. There is a little ramp on the upper end of thee trigger lever the disconnector rides up on and it hung up at that point.

Revolvr · 08-02-2004, 07:59 PM

Thanks for your replies.

I think I have found the root cause. There is a slight amount of left/right play in the slide to frame fit, at the front. I noticed that if I remove the toggle assembly and reinstall the slide and side plate, then I can see the sear operate. I can push on the barrel and wiggle it left and right and see that with the trigger depressed the sear moves slightly with respect to the slide. The sear, being on the end of a lever seems to magnify the effect of the loose frame to slide fit.

If I reassemble, **** it, then push the barrel to the right, the the gun won't fire reliably. If I push the barrel to the left, the gun fires reliably. (All unloaded of course!)

So, I am thinking now before I stone or bend the sear bar, I should take this to a gunsmith and see if the frame to slide fit can be tightened up a bit. I don't think I have the equipment to do this myself.

Is this something a gunsmith can do? Anyone know of someone in the Phoneix AZ area that knows Lugers?

Thanks again,

-- Dan

Revolvr · 08-02-2004, 10:43 PM

Apologise for my newbiness. When I said slide I meant receiver. -- Dan

Revolvr · 08-09-2004, 07:47 PM

Update:

I was at the Termark gun show in Phoenix this weekend. There was one vendor there with 5 or 6 Lugers, all in fairly good shape ranging in price from $625 to >$4000. I checked these other Lugers and decided the play between the barrel/receiver and the frame on mine was normal.

I ended up carefully polishing the sear engagement surfaces on both the firing pin and the trigger bar with a hard Arkansas stone. The surfaces were a bit rough and I think it was binding on occasion. I shot about 40 rounds through it without a failure, so I think I have this problem solved.

I must be coming down with the "Luger Bug" - I almost bought me another one at the gun show!

Ron Wood · 08-09-2004, 10:55 PM

Lugermania is one of the more delightful forms of insanity.

Sticker · 10-25-2004, 08:09 PM

Hi

I'am a newbie

I have the same problem with my newly aquired 1940 42 luger.

Sometimes after firing a shot and releasing the trigger in a normal fashion, nothing will happen when the trigger is pulled again.

I removed the toggle to see what's going on,

that little round telescoping pin in the end or the sear bar seems to get caught on that L shaped transfer bar. If I push on the right side of the trigger, or release the trigger with force, the L bar moves out of the way and the pin pops out into place.

Someone mentioned to tweek that L shaped bar, how easy is it to bend? I don't want it to go snap!

Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated

Sticker

Hugh · 10-25-2004, 09:47 PM

Sticker,

<img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> DO NOT TRY TO BEND the trigger lever, IT WILL BREAK! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
If you will look closely at the top rear edge of the trigger lever, you will see a slight bevel on it. That is to aid the sear bar pin in slipping under it when the trigger is released. Polishing this bevel to make it smoother will often correct the problem that you are having. Another remedy is to stone a slight bevel on the outside corner of the sear bar pin to help it slip under the trigger lever.

Sticker · 10-25-2004, 10:50 PM

Thanks Hugh

Sticker

unspellable · 10-26-2004, 10:36 AM

This problem sounds some what like the one I had. In my case it was a vintage Swiss trigger lever that some how found its way into a Mauser re-intro. It was simply the wrong lever, so no amount of fiddling with it would make it work reliably. Just had to get the correct lever.

08-01-2004, 03:50 PM	#1
Revolvr User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 86 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Occasional failure to fire Hi all! I am looking for a bit of sage advice on solving a problem. I have a 1920's commercial .30 Luger I recently bought. It loads fires and ejects flawwlessly - except for one minor problem. Occasionally I pull on the trigger and nothing happens. The sear surfaces apparently do not disengage. If I pull the trigger again (maybe a few times), it will fire. So my theory is that perhaps there may be just a bit of play between the firing pin and breechblock so that it might move just a bit with the sear bar as the trigger is pulled. Or possibly the engagement surfaces are a bit rough and it has trouble disengaging. Another possibility is the sear bar was not an original part and needs a bit of fitting. All parts have matching numbers but there is no number on the sear bar. Should there be? So I am thinking I could lightly stone the sear bar (the ramp) and ever so slightly radius the edge. I have done some trigger work on other guns so this isn't completely new to me. But I would like to know if anyone else has seen this problem, and am I on the right track? Thanks much, -- Dan

08-01-2004, 06:55 PM	#2
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Dan, I believe that you are partially on the right track. The proper method would be to remove thewear bar and "tweak" it. To do this slightly bend the bar so that the ends will go away from the pistol. I very little goes along way and you may need to experiment. Only after you get this close would I consider removing material. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

08-09-2004, 10:55 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Lugermania is one of the more delightful forms of insanity. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-25-2004, 09:47 PM	#9
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Sticker, <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> DO NOT TRY TO BEND the trigger lever, IT WILL BREAK! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> If you will look closely at the top rear edge of the trigger lever, you will see a slight bevel on it. That is to aid the sear bar pin in slipping under it when the trigger is released. Polishing this bevel to make it smoother will often correct the problem that you are having. Another remedy is to stone a slight bevel on the outside corner of the sear bar pin to help it slip under the trigger lever. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

08-02-2004, 06:35 PM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Before you start modifying anything, check to make sure the disconnector is working properly. I had a problem of this sort in which the disconnector occasionaly failed to re-connect after releasing the trigger. This could be a sticky disconnector but in my case proved to be a misfitted trigger lever. There is a little ramp on the upper end of thee trigger lever the disconnector rides up on and it hung up at that point.

08-02-2004, 07:59 PM	#4
Revolvr User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 86 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your replies. I think I have found the root cause. There is a slight amount of left/right play in the slide to frame fit, at the front. I noticed that if I remove the toggle assembly and reinstall the slide and side plate, then I can see the sear operate. I can push on the barrel and wiggle it left and right and see that with the trigger depressed the sear moves slightly with respect to the slide. The sear, being on the end of a lever seems to magnify the effect of the loose frame to slide fit. If I reassemble, **** it, then push the barrel to the right, the the gun won't fire reliably. If I push the barrel to the left, the gun fires reliably. (All unloaded of course!) So, I am thinking now before I stone or bend the sear bar, I should take this to a gunsmith and see if the frame to slide fit can be tightened up a bit. I don't think I have the equipment to do this myself. Is this something a gunsmith can do? Anyone know of someone in the Phoneix AZ area that knows Lugers? Thanks again, -- Dan

08-02-2004, 10:43 PM	#5
Revolvr User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 86 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Apologise for my newbiness. When I said slide I meant receiver. -- Dan

08-09-2004, 07:47 PM	#6
Revolvr User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 86 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Update: I was at the Termark gun show in Phoenix this weekend. There was one vendor there with 5 or 6 Lugers, all in fairly good shape ranging in price from $625 to >$4000. I checked these other Lugers and decided the play between the barrel/receiver and the frame on mine was normal. I ended up carefully polishing the sear engagement surfaces on both the firing pin and the trigger bar with a hard Arkansas stone. The surfaces were a bit rough and I think it was binding on occasion. I shot about 40 rounds through it without a failure, so I think I have this problem solved. I must be coming down with the "Luger Bug" - I almost bought me another one at the gun show!

10-25-2004, 08:09 PM	#8
Sticker User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ontario Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi I'am a newbie I have the same problem with my newly aquired 1940 42 luger. Sometimes after firing a shot and releasing the trigger in a normal fashion, nothing will happen when the trigger is pulled again. I removed the toggle to see what's going on, that little round telescoping pin in the end or the sear bar seems to get caught on that L shaped transfer bar. If I push on the right side of the trigger, or release the trigger with force, the L bar moves out of the way and the pin pops out into place. Someone mentioned to tweek that L shaped bar, how easy is it to bend? I don't want it to go snap! Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated Sticker

10-25-2004, 10:50 PM	#10
Sticker User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ontario Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Hugh Sticker

10-26-2004, 10:36 AM	#11
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	This problem sounds some what like the one I had. In my case it was a vintage Swiss trigger lever that some how found its way into a Mauser re-intro. It was simply the wrong lever, so no amount of fiddling with it would make it work reliably. Just had to get the correct lever.