1918 ERFURT

noonsap · 01-17-2004, 02:03 AM

HI everyone,Im not a collector but i have an '18 ERFURT with '16 holster which i would say is in very good condition, the holster that is.
The pistol is not good enough to be a collectors item as some numbers dont match.It may have been thrown together from parts, i dont know.
It has AFRIKA KORPS on rear of frame just under metal loop and the serial/frame num is XIV.
Very small stampings.Can anybody give me some info on this weapon please?
Oh yeah, it still shoots a tight group.
Regards, Dave

Dwight Gruber · 01-17-2004, 02:13 AM

Dave,

Is it possible for you to post photographs or scans of your Luger, particularly all the markings on it?

--Dwight

John Sabato · 01-19-2004, 07:31 AM

Hi noonsap,

Welcome to the Lugerforum.

There was a similarly marked "AFRIKA KORPS" luger discussed on this forum a couple of years ago... as I recall, after close examination of the photos, it was the general consensus of the membership that this particular gun had been marked in this manner by some owner hoping to raise it's collector value, or just to make conversation by installing an unknown marking...

No way to make a judgement call on your gun, (which I suppose might be the same gun since we don't know how or when you acquired it) without some good clear photographs of the gun and it's markings... so please post photos for the forum to examine... if you need help with this, just ask.

BTW, Lugers are known for their accuracy...

Roadkill · 01-19-2004, 02:09 PM

Reference the term AFRIKA CORPS" on a pistol,

A Iron Cross awarded to a soldier in 1942 (http://www.deutsches-afrikakorps.de/html/gesamt.htm)

lists him as being in the staff as : stab/90.le.afr.DIV (Africa Division)

Rommel's signature block on same award was over "The Deutsch-Italianishen Panzerarmee", his offical stamp was "OBERKOMMANDO DER PANZERARMEE AFRIKA" (Commander of the African Armored Army),

There are 55 Kampfgruppe (combat units) listed in the history of DAK (Deutches Afrikakorps), only one has the actual "Afrikakorps" heading:

Afrikakorps Stab Kampfgruppe
Grund: Diese Gruppe wurde am 14. April 1942 aufgestellt. (Grund unbekannt)

Gliederung: 2./Flak-Abteilung 606
1 Zug/PanzerjÃ?Â¤ger-Abteilung 39
1 Panzer-Zug (5 Panzer Typ II)
1 Zug, 1./Pionier-Bataillon 33
1 PanzerspÃ?Â¤hwagen-Zug/AufklÃ?Â¤rungsabteilung 3

Called the Second (no mention of a first)Africa Corps (Afrikakorps) Staff Combat group 606, it consisted of two flak batteries, one unit of tank destroyers (section 39), one unit of Engineers (33rd Bn), and one armored reconaissance unit, section 3). It was organized on 14 April 1942, reason unknown.

Each time the term Africa Corps is used in German it is one word or a hyphenated version. Each time its used in English it is as two seperate words.(http://www.afrika-korps.de/verband/index.htm) Why would it be different now?

Also listed under Rommel's biography :
"und im MÃ?Â¤rz 1943, noch vor der Kapitulation des deutschen Afrikakorps" ( and in March 1943 still before the capitulation of the German Africa Corps)
I said all that to say that if a German pistol would have been marked by a unit it most likely would not have the stamp "Afrika Korps"

DAK maybe, Afrikakorps less likely, Afrika Korps, (?)

rk

noonsap · 01-20-2004, 03:22 AM

Thank you for your replies. I just bought a new digi camera and tried a couple of photos...ha ha I need more practise I think,its not easy!
I do believe that the AFRIKA KORPS and serial num XIV might have been stamped after manufacture, as they are partially double stamped.
I have worked with Germans they are very precise and accurate tech's so not much chance of them lads double stamping. Barrel and slide are numbered 5206.
Cheers,Dave

01-17-2004, 02:03 AM	#1
noonsap New User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oziland Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 ERFURT HI everyone,Im not a collector but i have an '18 ERFURT with '16 holster which i would say is in very good condition, the holster that is. The pistol is not good enough to be a collectors item as some numbers dont match.It may have been thrown together from parts, i dont know. It has AFRIKA KORPS on rear of frame just under metal loop and the serial/frame num is XIV. Very small stampings.Can anybody give me some info on this weapon please? Oh yeah, it still shoots a tight group. Regards, Dave

01-19-2004, 07:31 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Hi noonsap, Welcome to the Lugerforum. There was a similarly marked "AFRIKA KORPS" luger discussed on this forum a couple of years ago... as I recall, after close examination of the photos, it was the general consensus of the membership that this particular gun had been marked in this manner by some owner hoping to raise it's collector value, or just to make conversation by installing an unknown marking... No way to make a judgement call on your gun, (which I suppose might be the same gun since we don't know how or when you acquired it) without some good clear photographs of the gun and it's markings... so please post photos for the forum to examine... if you need help with this, just ask. BTW, Lugers are known for their accuracy... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-17-2004, 02:13 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Dave, Is it possible for you to post photographs or scans of your Luger, particularly all the markings on it? --Dwight

01-19-2004, 02:09 PM	#4
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Reference the term AFRIKA CORPS" on a pistol, A Iron Cross awarded to a soldier in 1942 (http://www.deutsches-afrikakorps.de/html/gesamt.htm) lists him as being in the staff as : stab/90.le.afr.DIV (Africa Division) Rommel's signature block on same award was over "The Deutsch-Italianishen Panzerarmee", his offical stamp was "OBERKOMMANDO DER PANZERARMEE AFRIKA" (Commander of the African Armored Army), There are 55 Kampfgruppe (combat units) listed in the history of DAK (Deutches Afrikakorps), only one has the actual "Afrikakorps" heading: Afrikakorps Stab Kampfgruppe Grund: Diese Gruppe wurde am 14. April 1942 aufgestellt. (Grund unbekannt) Gliederung: 2./Flak-Abteilung 606 1 Zug/PanzerjÃ?Â¤ger-Abteilung 39 1 Panzer-Zug (5 Panzer Typ II) 1 Zug, 1./Pionier-Bataillon 33 1 PanzerspÃ?Â¤hwagen-Zug/AufklÃ?Â¤rungsabteilung 3 Called the Second (no mention of a first)Africa Corps (Afrikakorps) Staff Combat group 606, it consisted of two flak batteries, one unit of tank destroyers (section 39), one unit of Engineers (33rd Bn), and one armored reconaissance unit, section 3). It was organized on 14 April 1942, reason unknown. Each time the term Africa Corps is used in German it is one word or a hyphenated version. Each time its used in English it is as two seperate words.(http://www.afrika-korps.de/verband/index.htm) Why would it be different now? Also listed under Rommel's biography : "und im MÃ?Â¤rz 1943, noch vor der Kapitulation des deutschen Afrikakorps" ( and in March 1943 still before the capitulation of the German Africa Corps) I said all that to say that if a German pistol would have been marked by a unit it most likely would not have the stamp "Afrika Korps" DAK maybe, Afrikakorps less likely, Afrika Korps, (?) rk

01-20-2004, 03:22 AM	#5
noonsap New User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: oziland Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for your replies. I just bought a new digi camera and tried a couple of photos...ha ha I need more practise I think,its not easy! I do believe that the AFRIKA KORPS and serial num XIV might have been stamped after manufacture, as they are partially double stamped. I have worked with Germans they are very precise and accurate tech's so not much chance of them lads double stamping. Barrel and slide are numbered 5206. Cheers,Dave