Another local Luger find

tumtatty · 03-10-2010, 02:04 PM

I just purchased my first luger and low and behold another one has turned up locally.

The seller has this from her sister's husband who just passed away. He doesn't know anything about the gun other than what's in the pics.

He wants $900. It has a Sarco lower and a WWII upper. It comes with the holster. I've sent an email asking about any markings on the holster or magazine. Haven't heard back yet.

Is this one worth the $. If not, what should I offer?

Edward Tinker · 03-10-2010, 03:21 PM

find out what the front of the frame serial number is. Sarco was just the importer, as its a Mauser frame.

I think a bit high, unless all matching; then its up to you.

The holster, if original adds $100-$150 to the deal...

Ed

tumtatty · 03-22-2010, 09:07 AM

The frame serial is "2687." Looks like the pieces match. Not sure of barrel condition. The seller tells me that the holster has no markings on it whatsoever. Not sure what that means.

The price is $835 delivered.

Can you tell if the grips are real or repro from these pics?
Does that sound like a good deal? If not, what might a good negotiation price be?

John Sabato · 03-22-2010, 12:08 PM

The grips look original to me. I would say that this is not a bad deal ($835) if it is a genuine original holster included... If there is no provenance that the holster is original, I would offer $700-750 cash and see what the reaction is.

Vlim · 03-22-2010, 01:13 PM

Barrel markings should also help.

It has a certain VoPo appearance to it.

tumtatty · 03-22-2010, 01:22 PM

What's VoPo?

Vlim · 03-22-2010, 01:24 PM

East-German police rework (short for 'Volkspolizei').

Rebuilt P08 pistols from the pre-1945 era, many times with newly produced (crown/N proofed) barrels.

tumtatty · 03-22-2010, 01:58 PM

Are those not as desirable?

Here is what I am thinking. I have another Luger (which was discussed in this forum Here)

My current financial situation doesn't really allow me own 2 lugers. I took the DWM luger out to the range a couple days ago and at 25 yrd the bullets were key-holing the paper. The rifling is so worn that the bullets are not stabilizing. This was disheartening to me as I am a shooter as much as a collector.

Assuming this particular luger has a decent barrel, I was thinking about selling off my original one and getting the 41/42 luger instead.

I'd love your thoughts/opinions. The DWM seems like a better or more valuable collector piece. Should I just hold on to it or is the luger on this page a good one as well?

Vlim · 03-22-2010, 02:02 PM

Hi,

VoPo lugers are great shooters. They usually are technically OK and haven't seen much action since they went through the rework programs of the 1950s. My own preferred shooter is a 1937 S/42 with VoPo barrel. Very accurate and very reliable.

An added bonus is the improved metallurgy of the later Mauser pistols.

tumtatty · 03-25-2010, 08:22 PM

The seller will not come off the $835 price (which includes the holster and deliver). I don't think the Barrel matches. he said there was a 2 digit number under the barrel that was very faint "perhaps an 86."

I've put my 1920 DWM up for sale on Gunbroker and I guess I"ll buy this one. I definitely prefer the WWII era Luger since I collect WWII weapons. I need one with more rifling in the barrel too. I still feel a little strange about letting my first one go. Hopefully I'm doing the right thing....

tumtatty · 03-31-2010, 03:02 PM

I sent off payment for the piece today!

Magazine matches as well.

Is there anywhere I can read up on the 41-42 lugers online? I haven't acquired any reference books yet.

Lugerdoc · 04-01-2010, 11:48 AM

Tum, Most of the SARCO marked imports were DDR reworks with DDR (2/1001 marked) mags numbered to the guns, so this "matching" mag would not add near as much value as the original WW2 issued one. The unmarked holster may also be EG, as I have owned one that was a copy of the WW2 Police style ones. As was mentioned above, this may have a new DDR barrel installed, which is good for accuracy, but not collector value. Good luck, Tom

tumtatty · 04-01-2010, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the reply!

Is the price I'm paying too much?

I'm guessing that the barrel is a replacement since the number was not readily visible. I'm ok with that. I guess if it had a matching barrel the value would be significantly more for this piece. I don't want to get taken advantage of. Its been frustrating trying to learn about this piece.

Is DDR the same as VOPO?

alanint · 04-01-2010, 12:23 PM

DDR is the German acronim for German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. This is the goverment who converted many of these captured Lugers for police use.

Norme · 04-01-2010, 12:49 PM

Hi Tim, A 41 42 Luger is a relatively scarce variation (about 7,000 pieces) that was only produced during the first few weeks of 1941. Unfortunately, since your gun has been reworked, it is now, perhaps unfairly, of little interest to collectors. Regards, Norm

tumtatty · 04-01-2010, 03:17 PM

That's a bummer. I thought I was on to something good here. I hope I didn't lose money on the transaction.

By "reworked" does that mean more than just a new barrel? was it scrubbed somehow and re-blued? I see the WWII markings on the gun so I'm assuming it wasn't modified too much.

Norme · 04-01-2010, 03:43 PM

Hi Tim, Don't sell your gun short just because most collectors are looking for Lugers in factory original condition. Your 41 42 most probably had a dramatic WWII history, culminating in capture by the Russians. Possibly, even, at the gates of Stalingrad, when von Paulus's 6th Army was encircled and forced to surrender, with all it's equipment. Many of the captured sidearms were passed on to the oppressive E. German regime for use by the Vopo. Your gun has had a long and exciting journey and you should treasure it. Regards, Norm

tumtatty · 04-01-2010, 04:00 PM

Thanks Norm! That does help. Reminds me of why I started collecting in the first place

wlyon · 04-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Tim
A 41-42 is a rather rare luger. In any condition they are rather uncommon. So enjoy your bit of history and happy shooting. Bill

tumtatty · 04-10-2010, 11:53 PM

The Luger arrived today!
Here are some pics. I'd love your opinions. Is it a VOPO?

What do the markings under the barrel mean? They are very small but it looks like a War Eagle (?) with "623" underneath.

Are the grips originals?

I"m guessing the Mag is a VOPO type restamp.

Any ideas about the holster. The only markings I can see are "ET" and a "B" in on the back.

Thanks for all the input!

03-10-2010, 02:04 PM	#1
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Another local Luger find I just purchased my first luger and low and behold another one has turned up locally. The seller has this from her sister's husband who just passed away. He doesn't know anything about the gun other than what's in the pics. He wants $900. It has a Sarco lower and a WWII upper. It comes with the holster. I've sent an email asking about any markings on the holster or magazine. Haven't heard back yet. Is this one worth the $. If not, what should I offer?

03-10-2010, 03:21 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	find out what the front of the frame serial number is. Sarco was just the importer, as its a Mauser frame. I think a bit high, unless all matching; then its up to you. The holster, if original adds $100-$150 to the deal... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-22-2010, 12:08 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The grips look original to me. I would say that this is not a bad deal ($835) if it is a genuine original holster included... If there is no provenance that the holster is original, I would offer $700-750 cash and see what the reaction is. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-01-2010, 11:48 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Tum, Most of the SARCO marked imports were DDR reworks with DDR (2/1001 marked) mags numbered to the guns, so this "matching" mag would not add near as much value as the original WW2 issued one. The unmarked holster may also be EG, as I have owned one that was a copy of the WW2 Police style ones. As was mentioned above, this may have a new DDR barrel installed, which is good for accuracy, but not collector value. Good luck, Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-01-2010, 04:56 PM	#19
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	Tim A 41-42 is a rather rare luger. In any condition they are rather uncommon. So enjoy your bit of history and happy shooting. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-22-2010, 09:07 AM	#3
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The frame serial is "2687." Looks like the pieces match. Not sure of barrel condition. The seller tells me that the holster has no markings on it whatsoever. Not sure what that means. The price is $835 delivered. Can you tell if the grips are real or repro from these pics? Does that sound like a good deal? If not, what might a good negotiation price be?

03-22-2010, 01:13 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Barrel markings should also help. It has a certain VoPo appearance to it.

03-22-2010, 01:22 PM	#6
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What's VoPo?

03-22-2010, 01:24 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	East-German police rework (short for 'Volkspolizei'). Rebuilt P08 pistols from the pre-1945 era, many times with newly produced (crown/N proofed) barrels.

03-22-2010, 01:58 PM	#8
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Are those not as desirable? Here is what I am thinking. I have another Luger (which was discussed in this forum Here) My current financial situation doesn't really allow me own 2 lugers. I took the DWM luger out to the range a couple days ago and at 25 yrd the bullets were key-holing the paper. The rifling is so worn that the bullets are not stabilizing. This was disheartening to me as I am a shooter as much as a collector. Assuming this particular luger has a decent barrel, I was thinking about selling off my original one and getting the 41/42 luger instead. I'd love your thoughts/opinions. The DWM seems like a better or more valuable collector piece. Should I just hold on to it or is the luger on this page a good one as well?

03-22-2010, 02:02 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, VoPo lugers are great shooters. They usually are technically OK and haven't seen much action since they went through the rework programs of the 1950s. My own preferred shooter is a 1937 S/42 with VoPo barrel. Very accurate and very reliable. An added bonus is the improved metallurgy of the later Mauser pistols.

03-25-2010, 08:22 PM	#10
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The seller will not come off the $835 price (which includes the holster and deliver). I don't think the Barrel matches. he said there was a 2 digit number under the barrel that was very faint "perhaps an 86." I've put my 1920 DWM up for sale on Gunbroker and I guess I"ll buy this one. I definitely prefer the WWII era Luger since I collect WWII weapons. I need one with more rifling in the barrel too. I still feel a little strange about letting my first one go. Hopefully I'm doing the right thing....

03-31-2010, 03:02 PM	#11
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I sent off payment for the piece today! Magazine matches as well. Is there anywhere I can read up on the 41-42 lugers online? I haven't acquired any reference books yet.

04-01-2010, 11:57 AM	#13
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the reply! Is the price I'm paying too much? I'm guessing that the barrel is a replacement since the number was not readily visible. I'm ok with that. I guess if it had a matching barrel the value would be significantly more for this piece. I don't want to get taken advantage of. Its been frustrating trying to learn about this piece. Is DDR the same as VOPO?

04-01-2010, 12:23 PM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	DDR is the German acronim for German Democratic Republic, or East Germany. This is the goverment who converted many of these captured Lugers for police use.

04-01-2010, 12:49 PM	#15
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Tim, A 41 42 Luger is a relatively scarce variation (about 7,000 pieces) that was only produced during the first few weeks of 1941. Unfortunately, since your gun has been reworked, it is now, perhaps unfairly, of little interest to collectors. Regards, Norm

04-01-2010, 03:17 PM	#16
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's a bummer. I thought I was on to something good here. I hope I didn't lose money on the transaction. By "reworked" does that mean more than just a new barrel? was it scrubbed somehow and re-blued? I see the WWII markings on the gun so I'm assuming it wasn't modified too much.

04-01-2010, 03:43 PM	#17
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Tim, Don't sell your gun short just because most collectors are looking for Lugers in factory original condition. Your 41 42 most probably had a dramatic WWII history, culminating in capture by the Russians. Possibly, even, at the gates of Stalingrad, when von Paulus's 6th Army was encircled and forced to surrender, with all it's equipment. Many of the captured sidearms were passed on to the oppressive E. German regime for use by the Vopo. Your gun has had a long and exciting journey and you should treasure it. Regards, Norm

04-01-2010, 04:00 PM	#18
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Norm! That does help. Reminds me of why I started collecting in the first place

04-10-2010, 11:53 PM	#20
tumtatty User Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 28 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Luger arrived today! Here are some pics. I'd love your opinions. Is it a VOPO? What do the markings under the barrel mean? They are very small but it looks like a War Eagle (?) with "623" underneath. Are the grips originals? I"m guessing the Mag is a VOPO type restamp. Any ideas about the holster. The only markings I can see are "ET" and a "B" in on the back. Thanks for all the input!

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