Evaluation on DWM 1917

chilidawg · 06-08-2009, 10:42 PM

Hi

I just recieved this DWM 1917 and holster and I have some questions regarding its condition. Once I got it home and started taking detailed close up photos I noticed that the reciever sn has been over struck ( a possible explanation is that it was done at the factory ). Also the halo around the serial number has been questioned. The previous owner has a registration for this gun in his name from the early sixties. He says he never shot it, only fondling it occasionally. My question is, what have I got, is it a keeper or a shooter? If it's only a shooter than I will probably have it rebarreled to take it off the prohibited list (it's a Canadian B.S. law).

All numbered parts are correctly stamped with sn.

Photos of the reciever

chilidawg · 06-08-2009, 10:46 PM

more pics

alanint · 06-09-2009, 05:37 AM

It looks like a factory overstamp, (mistake) to me.

LugerVern · 06-09-2009, 06:18 PM

chilidawg

Very tough call!

I can only say the SN suffix bothers me on both the frame and barrel .

There appears to be shadows in both, and that would be unusual.

Maybe try taking some more pictures with different lighting and see if the shadows are really there.

I don't like how the letter is formed, could still be OK but worth a look.

Vern

chilidawg · 06-09-2009, 11:56 PM

As requested

LugerVern · 06-10-2009, 05:45 AM

chilidawg

What we need is another example of a 1917 "g" suffix gun to be sure-> so I am asking the other members for help.

I noticed what looks to be rough file marks on the forward edge of the lower receiver just in front of the take down lever? You may want to compare to other 1917's.

Go slow, don't jump to any conclusions, some members have already said they like your gun.

Vern

chilidawg · 06-10-2009, 08:26 AM

I found this 1917/1920 Police Rework. This example is less than 50 numbers from mine. I blocked the sn since I don't have permission to post it.

John Sabato · 06-10-2009, 09:21 AM

The "g" appears to also be an overstamp... IMHO there is no way to determine WHEN the overstamps took place. The COULD be from the factory under wartime conditions, or they could be an attempt to MAKE a matching pistol that would be worth a lot more by forced matching or deception.

Under the 'G" my eyes see an "S" is the original suffix stamp on the frame...and also possible on the barrel.

Others may disagree, but IMHO I would have to categorize the as a shooter simply because of the doubts of origin of the serial number marks. Sorry!

Ron Wood · 06-10-2009, 11:34 AM

I am afraid I do not agree with the overstamp assessment. To me the "g" looks perfectly acceptable. If you look at Vern's enhanced image you can see a small dent next to the letter, but other than that everythinge else looks OK. The serial number on the side of the receiver is an obvious overstamp, but with everything else on the gun matching I have to believe it is a factory error as alanint postulated. How likely is it that someone could find a receiver that was only one number off but had the correct serial number on the barrel and then fake the receiver number by overstamping it. Having said that however, I do not like the halo around the receiver number. It could have been caused by a factory restrike after blueing to correct the error but that is pure conjecture. Everything else about the gun looks legit and I would be reluctant to automatically relegate it to shooter status.

P.S. Upon re-looking at the photos it appears that the trigger and safety are blued. It could be just the lighting. Chilidawg can you verify if they are blue or straw?

sheepherder · 06-10-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilidawg

...If it's only a shooter than I will probably have it rebarreled to take it off the prohibited list (it's a Canadian B.S. law).

chili -

What is it about the barrel that makes it prohibited??? And what would you rebarrel it with to make it un-prohibited???

9mm to 7.65mm???

alanint · 06-10-2009, 12:02 PM

I agree with Ron Wood. What would be gained in value by restricking a "g" production code over an "s" production code in two places on the gun?

chilidawg · 06-10-2009, 01:03 PM

1. can you verify if they are blue or straw?

It's a little weak but all strawed parts are correct.

2. What is it about the barrel that makes it prohibited???

Canadian Firearms Law states any firearm with a barrel less than 4.1 inches is prohibited. I can still possess this class of firearm because I owned one before the law came into effect. If my licence lapses or I sell off all my prohibited firearms then I lose this right forever.

PS maybe I could stretch the barrel with a torch, I only need a quarter of an inch. (don't look at me like that, i'm just joking)

More pics

I just read on another forum that the first part of the serial number is stamped inside the sideplate.

John Sabato · 06-10-2009, 02:23 PM

Hey Ron W.

I can only report what my eyes think they see... Without a hands on inspection of the suffix with a jewelers loupe, I can't disagree or contest what you think you see... Just report what I see in the pictures.

Opinions are like...uh,, elbows, everybody has some!

Ron Wood · 06-10-2009, 02:42 PM

John,
I respect your opinions, and your elbows! Looks like a neat gun whatever the case may be.

chilidawg · 06-10-2009, 09:53 PM

Thanks for all the great responses. I do believe that the gun is good. As I stated before the previous owner had this gun for 45 years, and was sure sad to see it's sale forced on him. The price was right, so I can't complain even if some think it's not a collector. As I was leaving the guys house, he made me promise to take care it. I'm now thinking of selling off some of my other guns to get more Lugers. I think I've caught the Luger bug.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-10-2009, 10:14 PM

Chili..Looks like a rightous pistola to me! Nice ...lots of finish. Like eatin tater chips..can't just have one! And yes..take good care of it. Buy it a playmate....

Jerry Burney

06-08-2009, 10:42 PM	#1
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Evaluation on DWM 1917 Hi I just recieved this DWM 1917 and holster and I have some questions regarding its condition. Once I got it home and started taking detailed close up photos I noticed that the reciever sn has been over struck ( a possible explanation is that it was done at the factory ). Also the halo around the serial number has been questioned. The previous owner has a registration for this gun in his name from the early sixties. He says he never shot it, only fondling it occasionally. My question is, what have I got, is it a keeper or a shooter? If it's only a shooter than I will probably have it rebarreled to take it off the prohibited list (it's a Canadian B.S. law). All numbered parts are correctly stamped with sn. Photos of the reciever Attached Thumbnails Last edited by chilidawg; 06-08-2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason: more info

06-08-2009, 10:46 PM	#2
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more pics Attached Thumbnails

06-09-2009, 06:18 PM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	chilidawg Very tough call! I can only say the SN suffix bothers me on both the frame and barrel . There appears to be shadows in both, and that would be unusual. Maybe try taking some more pictures with different lighting and see if the shadows are really there. I don't like how the letter is formed, could still be OK but worth a look. Vern Attached Images

06-09-2009, 11:56 PM	#5
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As requested Attached Thumbnails

06-10-2009, 08:26 AM	#7
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I found this 1917/1920 Police Rework. This example is less than 50 numbers from mine. I blocked the sn since I don't have permission to post it. Attached Images

06-09-2009, 05:37 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	It looks like a factory overstamp, (mistake) to me.

06-10-2009, 05:45 AM	#6
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	chilidawg What we need is another example of a 1917 "g" suffix gun to be sure-> so I am asking the other members for help. I noticed what looks to be rough file marks on the forward edge of the lower receiver just in front of the take down lever? You may want to compare to other 1917's. Go slow, don't jump to any conclusions, some members have already said they like your gun. Vern

06-10-2009, 09:21 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The "g" appears to also be an overstamp... IMHO there is no way to determine WHEN the overstamps took place. The COULD be from the factory under wartime conditions, or they could be an attempt to MAKE a matching pistol that would be worth a lot more by forced matching or deception. Under the 'G" my eyes see an "S" is the original suffix stamp on the frame...and also possible on the barrel. Others may disagree, but IMHO I would have to categorize the as a shooter simply because of the doubts of origin of the serial number marks. Sorry! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2009, 11:34 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	I am afraid I do not agree with the overstamp assessment. To me the "g" looks perfectly acceptable. If you look at Vern's enhanced image you can see a small dent next to the letter, but other than that everythinge else looks OK. The serial number on the side of the receiver is an obvious overstamp, but with everything else on the gun matching I have to believe it is a factory error as alanint postulated. How likely is it that someone could find a receiver that was only one number off but had the correct serial number on the barrel and then fake the receiver number by overstamping it. Having said that however, I do not like the halo around the receiver number. It could have been caused by a factory restrike after blueing to correct the error but that is pure conjecture. Everything else about the gun looks legit and I would be reluctant to automatically relegate it to shooter status. P.S. Upon re-looking at the photos it appears that the trigger and safety are blued. It could be just the lighting. Chilidawg can you verify if they are blue or straw? Attached Images __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-10-2009, 12:02 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I agree with Ron Wood. What would be gained in value by restricking a "g" production code over an "s" production code in two places on the gun?

06-10-2009, 01:03 PM	#12
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1. can you verify if they are blue or straw? It's a little weak but all strawed parts are correct. 2. What is it about the barrel that makes it prohibited??? Canadian Firearms Law states any firearm with a barrel less than 4.1 inches is prohibited. I can still possess this class of firearm because I owned one before the law came into effect. If my licence lapses or I sell off all my prohibited firearms then I lose this right forever. PS maybe I could stretch the barrel with a torch, I only need a quarter of an inch. (don't look at me like that, i'm just joking) More pics I just read on another forum that the first part of the serial number is stamped inside the sideplate. Attached Thumbnails

06-10-2009, 02:23 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Hey Ron W. I can only report what my eyes think they see... Without a hands on inspection of the suffix with a jewelers loupe, I can't disagree or contest what you think you see... Just report what I see in the pictures. Opinions are like...uh,, elbows, everybody has some! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-10-2009, 02:42 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	John, I respect your opinions, and your elbows! Looks like a neat gun whatever the case may be. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-10-2009, 09:53 PM	#15
chilidawg User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the great responses. I do believe that the gun is good. As I stated before the previous owner had this gun for 45 years, and was sure sad to see it's sale forced on him. The price was right, so I can't complain even if some think it's not a collector. As I was leaving the guys house, he made me promise to take care it. I'm now thinking of selling off some of my other guns to get more Lugers. I think I've caught the Luger bug.

06-10-2009, 10:14 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Chili..Looks like a rightous pistola to me! Nice ...lots of finish. Like eatin tater chips..can't just have one! And yes..take good care of it. Buy it a playmate.... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

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