historical letter

[ELANE9095]

Does anyone know of a service that provides historical letters on Luger serial numbers? I know Colt and Smith and Wesson do this.

Thanks,
Eric

[Edward Tinker]

no.... those companies have all of their records. You would have to figure out what company made your luger... and even then, most records are long gone...


Welcome to the forum, I moved this to the New Collectors area,


Ed

[ELANE9095]

Thanks for the information. I have two very rare Lugers. The first one is a Luger 1902 Carbine with the original stock. The second one is an American Eagle 1902 fat barrel that is 100% condition.

[Alx]

The French occupation military destroyed the old Mauser factory records in 1946 I think, which would also have been the location of any DWM records. Erfurt's factory machinery and records were inherited by Simson under the Treaty of Versailles, and Simson property had been " transferred " to Mauser by the Nazi govt.
So, c'est la vie !!
However, there are some board members who have alot of info somehow, and there are the Still authored books with lots of info of dates and numbers.

[graf98a]

Might I ask where did you get this information? Not saying your wrong however for the most part it doesn't make much sense from what I know & have heard...

For 1945 Mauser Oberndorf, the Germans evacuated large amounts of documents and specialist to Austria and these were captured by US forces after the war (this material was carted off to Britain after much pilfering by souvenir collectors) This & much more is covered in the CIOS report done on Mauser Oberndorf, off the cuff I believe inspections of Mauser was done for the report as well though I would have to double check this- the report is 360 pages long and quite extensive though primarily covers technical developments. The French more than likely carted off printed material as they did with much else, I doubt they destroyed much of value that could have been hauled off.

As for DWM, they existed throughout the war (minimized granted by comparison to pre-1918 DWM) and they actually ran FN during the German occupation, they were instrumental in stamping technology and much else, not an insignificant firm even in WWII. DWM was never dissolved after the war though it seems they were downsized significantly- they sure lost FN! I believe Mauser Oberndorf as well as pre-1918 they had controlling interest in Mauser, though in 1940 DWM & Mauser were very close as in the FN CIOS report they seemed to have had a lot of co-management people involved initially at FN?

I know Simson received the P08 line from Erfurt but exactly what else I do not know, possibly additional MG production though they did have some capacity during WWI at least as a subcontractor I believe, - any documentation for further machines acquired by Simson from Erfurt? (S&S actually made the MGâ??s during the war and I always assumed if they got additional machinery from somewhere else it likely was S&S? Though Erfurt makes sense as well considering the P08 connection) I also recall reading some of Erfurt's capacity was hidden (I believe it was in the Netherlands if memory serves though I don't recall to what extent.. this was VERY common and happened allot with many of the German industries, though as a State Arsenal one would think the motive would be lacking, or the authority?) Erfurt was a huge mfg up to 1918 for sure but I am almost positive not everything they did was transferred to Simson, Simson was too small to absorb much by comparison to Erfurt, most things I have read state Erfurt was "dissolvedâ?� & another private firm took the space, which interestingly were Jews and later pilfered by the nazis.. the same fate that befell Simson) Disolved to where is a bit of a mystery for all its capacity- they made a lot of stuff!

As for Simsonâ??s property going to Mauser I really doubt, it certainly went some where other than to Weimar/Gustloff but I don't think it went to Ulm but rather closer to home in Suhl, Cates Vol II may offer clues... Look towards competition in Suhl & Zella-Mehlis would be my bet.

Personally I am dieing to know more about of this Oct 45 S&S document provided to Soviet authorities that Cates refers too, perhaps Cates or someone familiar could elaborate on S&S and the use of subcontractors.

Bottom line a lot of conjecture here and it sure isnâ??t easy to piece it altogether, especially as it relates to Simson, but I would like to see if you have some insight to the subject you discuss as your views are the first I have heard of with much of what you wrote.

Originally posted by Alx
The French occupation military destroyed the old Mauser factory records in 1946 I think, which would also have been the location of any DWM records. Erfurt's factory machinery and records were inherited by Simson under the Treaty of Versailles, and Simson property had been " transferred " to Mauser by the Nazi govt.
So, c'est la vie !!
However, there are some board members who have alot of info somehow, and there are the Still authored books with lots of info of dates and numbers.

[mauro]

Hello Paul,
Mauser started again the production of P08, P38 and some different kinds of carbines when it was managed by the French autorities.
Actually it was not a real production but they assembled new parts that wee still available as stock.
This was done under the control of the French autorities and for the French army.
August Weiss was the responsible of this production.
The P08 and LP08 made in this period where mainly used by the French army and by the Gendarmerie.
The gendarmerie used the P08 until 1970.
Some pictures of the post WWII French models are available on my web site.
Cheers,
Mauro

[Heinz]

Eric, to get back to your question: the serial numbers and production dates of both 1902 pattern carbines and "Fat Barrel" 1902 Lugers are well known. Several members of this forum could help you on those issues, but not me :-(. If you can post photographs or care to post serial number information you will get responses. You may x out the last two digits of the serial number if that makes you feel more comfotable e.g. 100xx.

[ELANE9095]

Thanks. The serial number on the fat barrel is 22655. The one on the carbine is 21995. I'd love to get some history on the Lugers.

[Lugerdoc]

Jim, One correction to the above. It is generally believed that Kreighoff took over the Simson machinery and parts in the 1934 = 1935 period. TH