Jerked around on sale of luger, maybe

Bud · 09-13-2002, 06:08 AM

How about an opinion here, since I have been pretty irked off about a recent incident concerning a luger I sold. Since I already have three shooter lugers, I decided to sell one. Said luger is my 1915 all matching except magazine, with dark bore but sharp rifling all the way to crown, which is what is important for shooter. It has plenty of rust, very deep in spots, as stated and photographed in the ad, and I sold it for $440 shipped, only as a highly accurate ugly shooter luger that couldn't ever be rifinished likley, clearly stated.
The buyer then returns it with excuses that even though he knew it had rust, that the rust was just too "overwhelming", and of course he claimed minor nicks in the metal, nothing compared to the rust damage on the heel of the grip, but he could have claimed just about anything from rusty sight blade to a rust spot that looked like Osama Bin Laden.
Now remember, it was priced for the fact that rifling was in near unissued condition, actually it appeared unfired since WW1, like the whole pistol, but likely stored improperly(a total shame), so technically the barrel is likely never going to be needing to be replaced unless shot out, but there was still darkness in there, maybe even frosting nonetheless.
I am refunding this guy his money minus $33 shipping, taking it on the chin for other expenses, but he actually wanted most of his money back originally. Did I overprice this gun, or is the guy likely looking for something to rebuild for profit? Might sell it again, so how much next time, if I need the money. Would post a pic, but can't somehow, no browse button.

Stu · 09-13-2002, 08:56 AM

Just my opinion, (and not an informed one at that), but unless someone states there's an inspection period in the ad I assume that when I win I've bought what I bid on. Did you offer an inspection and return option ? The only other circumstance where I feel a return is justified is if there was a significant misrepresentation of the item; that's more subjective ! Is that what your buyer is claiming ?

A couple of times I've been disappointed; but that's part of the risk you take when you buy items at auction. I believe that if you're not prepared to take some risk along these lines then you should stick to finding the item where you can inspect before purchase; it may take longer and cost more, but that's your choice !

MauserLugers · 09-13-2002, 10:22 AM

Hi,
My opinion on your question is a little different I guess than most. I feel as a seller I want to give a detailed description of what I have so there are no surprises. If it is being sold in person, then they are seeing what it is at that time. If I am selling it to someone over the phone or ect., then I always give a 3 day inspection period and I always tell them that if they are not happy, to return it regardless of the reason. I also feel if I buy something and I just don't like it I want to be able to return it with no questions asked. I will never deal with anyone who states that the sale is final with no returns. First of all, you want the transaction to be a happy one for both involved. Your reputation is on the line as a seller and also as a buyer. You do not want a customer to be bad mouthing you for the rest of their live. Just say "No problem, send it back", and sell it to someone who is looking for an item just like the one you have. There are more customers out there than this one guy and if you treat him special, he may come back and buy something when you least expect it. Word of mouth is a powerful voice and it spreads rather quickly. Buyers are quickly labeled also as guys who know what they want and guys that return everything. I wouldn't worry or fret about your transaction at all, just be glad the guy returned it and you can sell it to someone who will be happy with it and gives you good feedback instead of someone who will never be happy with it and always give you negative feedback. Good collecting!

Dwight Gruber · 09-13-2002, 10:33 AM

Bud,

Mauserlugers is pretty much on the money, imho. In the "Site Help and Feedback" area there is a discussion of how to post photos to this forum, pictures are necessary in order to get any kind of rational assessment. Heck, actually, we all just pretty much like to look at pictures of people's Lugers around here... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

--Dwight

John Sabato · 09-13-2002, 12:03 PM

You got that right Dwight! Show me the Photos! I have all the disk space in the world since I got a CD ROM burner [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Feel free to use the For Sale forum and post plenty of photos so the buyer knows what he is getting... post your sale conditions (inspection period and the like) and then live up to them...

You shouldn't have any problems as long as your are being open about the condition... and photos make it much easier than buying a pig in a poke.

Bud · 09-14-2002, 01:32 AM

Thanks guys for the advice. No, I didn't state a return, but I am a reasonable man, even though I was contacted five days after it arrived at his dealers business for transfer. I don't do much selling, especially not in lugers.
I didn't sell it through this website, but a different gun related website. I figure since I listed it as a shooter, there is some guy out there who goes around looking for a good deal, and if it aint, he expects the seller to eat the cost. Imagine what someone might think if I bought off them a reblued, rebuffed luger, knowing it was rebuilt, and I got it and I didn't like how it was reblued or rebuffed.
Hopefully, nobody else is having the same problem with some buyer who does this regularly.

wterrell · 09-14-2002, 10:04 AM

[quote]...but illegal handguns are almost compulsory. <hr></blockquote>

Makes ownership more exciting!

Tac, you should consider dual citizenship. Spend the winters in Arizona and summers in Scotland. And during your few months on the island, be VERY outspoken, political, activist, and obnoxious. (Keep your stash of handguns in Arizona, of course.)

AGE · 09-14-2002, 02:42 PM

Wes,

I agree. I shoot with a Canadian who winters in Florida. Sadly, he puts his pistols in his bank safe deposit box before returning home to Canada for the cool refreshing summer.

He didn't even need to become a dual citizen to own firearms and obtain a CCW license in Florida. Citizenship isn't a requirement--competency and a clean record, however, are requirements.

Stu · 09-14-2002, 04:07 PM

And as an englishman in the US looking at citizenship; the US government are not at all keen on dual status unless under some very specific conditions.

When you take the oath you renounce your former citizenship and you're supposed to surrender old passports etc.

09-13-2002, 06:08 AM	#1
Bud User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerked around on sale of luger, maybe How about an opinion here, since I have been pretty irked off about a recent incident concerning a luger I sold. Since I already have three shooter lugers, I decided to sell one. Said luger is my 1915 all matching except magazine, with dark bore but sharp rifling all the way to crown, which is what is important for shooter. It has plenty of rust, very deep in spots, as stated and photographed in the ad, and I sold it for $440 shipped, only as a highly accurate ugly shooter luger that couldn't ever be rifinished likley, clearly stated. The buyer then returns it with excuses that even though he knew it had rust, that the rust was just too "overwhelming", and of course he claimed minor nicks in the metal, nothing compared to the rust damage on the heel of the grip, but he could have claimed just about anything from rusty sight blade to a rust spot that looked like Osama Bin Laden. Now remember, it was priced for the fact that rifling was in near unissued condition, actually it appeared unfired since WW1, like the whole pistol, but likely stored improperly(a total shame), so technically the barrel is likely never going to be needing to be replaced unless shot out, but there was still darkness in there, maybe even frosting nonetheless. I am refunding this guy his money minus $33 shipping, taking it on the chin for other expenses, but he actually wanted most of his money back originally. Did I overprice this gun, or is the guy likely looking for something to rebuild for profit? Might sell it again, so how much next time, if I need the money. Would post a pic, but can't somehow, no browse button.

09-13-2002, 12:03 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	You got that right Dwight! Show me the Photos! I have all the disk space in the world since I got a CD ROM burner [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Feel free to use the For Sale forum and post plenty of photos so the buyer knows what he is getting... post your sale conditions (inspection period and the like) and then live up to them... You shouldn't have any problems as long as your are being open about the condition... and photos make it much easier than buying a pig in a poke. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-14-2002, 10:04 AM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	[quote]...but illegal handguns are almost compulsory. <hr></blockquote> Makes ownership more exciting! Tac, you should consider dual citizenship. Spend the winters in Arizona and summers in Scotland. And during your few months on the island, be VERY outspoken, political, activist, and obnoxious. (Keep your stash of handguns in Arizona, of course.) __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-14-2002, 02:42 PM	#8
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes, I agree. I shoot with a Canadian who winters in Florida. Sadly, he puts his pistols in his bank safe deposit box before returning home to Canada for the cool refreshing summer. He didn't even need to become a dual citizen to own firearms and obtain a CCW license in Florida. Citizenship isn't a requirement--competency and a clean record, however, are requirements. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

09-13-2002, 08:56 AM	#2
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Just my opinion, (and not an informed one at that), but unless someone states there's an inspection period in the ad I assume that when I win I've bought what I bid on. Did you offer an inspection and return option ? The only other circumstance where I feel a return is justified is if there was a significant misrepresentation of the item; that's more subjective ! Is that what your buyer is claiming ? A couple of times I've been disappointed; but that's part of the risk you take when you buy items at auction. I believe that if you're not prepared to take some risk along these lines then you should stick to finding the item where you can inspect before purchase; it may take longer and cost more, but that's your choice !

09-13-2002, 10:22 AM	#3
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi, My opinion on your question is a little different I guess than most. I feel as a seller I want to give a detailed description of what I have so there are no surprises. If it is being sold in person, then they are seeing what it is at that time. If I am selling it to someone over the phone or ect., then I always give a 3 day inspection period and I always tell them that if they are not happy, to return it regardless of the reason. I also feel if I buy something and I just don't like it I want to be able to return it with no questions asked. I will never deal with anyone who states that the sale is final with no returns. First of all, you want the transaction to be a happy one for both involved. Your reputation is on the line as a seller and also as a buyer. You do not want a customer to be bad mouthing you for the rest of their live. Just say "No problem, send it back", and sell it to someone who is looking for an item just like the one you have. There are more customers out there than this one guy and if you treat him special, he may come back and buy something when you least expect it. Word of mouth is a powerful voice and it spreads rather quickly. Buyers are quickly labeled also as guys who know what they want and guys that return everything. I wouldn't worry or fret about your transaction at all, just be glad the guy returned it and you can sell it to someone who will be happy with it and gives you good feedback instead of someone who will never be happy with it and always give you negative feedback. Good collecting!

09-13-2002, 10:33 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Bud, Mauserlugers is pretty much on the money, imho. In the "Site Help and Feedback" area there is a discussion of how to post photos to this forum, pictures are necessary in order to get any kind of rational assessment. Heck, actually, we all just pretty much like to look at pictures of people's Lugers around here... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] --Dwight

09-14-2002, 01:32 AM	#6
Bud User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks guys for the advice. No, I didn't state a return, but I am a reasonable man, even though I was contacted five days after it arrived at his dealers business for transfer. I don't do much selling, especially not in lugers. I didn't sell it through this website, but a different gun related website. I figure since I listed it as a shooter, there is some guy out there who goes around looking for a good deal, and if it aint, he expects the seller to eat the cost. Imagine what someone might think if I bought off them a reblued, rebuffed luger, knowing it was rebuilt, and I got it and I didn't like how it was reblued or rebuffed. Hopefully, nobody else is having the same problem with some buyer who does this regularly.

09-14-2002, 04:07 PM	#9
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	And as an englishman in the US looking at citizenship; the US government are not at all keen on dual status unless under some very specific conditions. When you take the oath you renounce your former citizenship and you're supposed to surrender old passports etc.