Frame "Ear" Finish Question...

Pete Ebbink · 08-02-2003, 12:13 AM

The attached photos show the finish of the frame "ear" area of some Imperial DWM lugers; as shown in C. Kenyon's 2nd. book, "Luger - The Multinational Pistol". Both are of Navy guns.

Would like to know if this type of "crude" finish was typical for Imperial Navies and possibly other lugers from this same era ?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Thor · 08-02-2003, 12:55 AM

Good question Pete, I have noticed some DWMs have that kind of "drag" milling and some Mausers exhibit round mill marks. Of course I am talking about standard military Lugers and not Navy models.

ViggoG · 08-02-2003, 02:54 AM

Thor, and Pete, * Edited for clarity*
The Circular Markings are the typical marks left by a dull End Mill with Corner Radius.
The Longer Straight Marks appear to be the result of hurriedly removing,(with a hand scraper),the heavier rough circular marks, produced by more rapid feeding of the tool due to stepped up production practices.
Until late in WW-2, the standards of finish was a matter of judgement of the inspectors visual inspection
In my opinion both of these finishes would have met the same standard of finish though widely differing in appearance.
The standards were specified in the USA by a letter or number within check mark touching the surface. such as P = Polished, G = Finish Grind
1 = Fine machine finish,
2 = medium machine finish,
3 = Rough machine finish,
4 = rough hand grind,
5 = Burned surface or rough scale surface.
I feel that the finish that we are seeing would meet the V2 finish standard. Which was the usual finish for non critical surfaces, called good machining practice
Today the standards are specified as V1, to V500
Where the digits are measured in micro inches.
As Best I remember,
ViggoG

Dwight Gruber · 08-02-2003, 07:06 AM

Pete,

I have a 1915 DWM, a 1917 Artillery, and a 1917 Navy which have the long striations, and a 1918 Artillery and a DWM P-08 Commercial which do not.

--Dwight

08-02-2003, 12:13 AM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Frame "Ear" Finish Question... The attached photos show the finish of the frame "ear" area of some Imperial DWM lugers; as shown in C. Kenyon's 2nd. book, "Luger - The Multinational Pistol". Both are of Navy guns. Would like to know if this type of "crude" finish was typical for Imperial Navies and possibly other lugers from this same era ? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

08-02-2003, 12:55 AM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Good question Pete, I have noticed some DWMs have that kind of "drag" milling and some Mausers exhibit round mill marks. Of course I am talking about standard military Lugers and not Navy models. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-02-2003, 02:54 AM	#3
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thor, and Pete, * Edited for clarity* The Circular Markings are the typical marks left by a dull End Mill with Corner Radius. The Longer Straight Marks appear to be the result of hurriedly removing,(with a hand scraper),the heavier rough circular marks, produced by more rapid feeding of the tool due to stepped up production practices. Until late in WW-2, the standards of finish was a matter of judgement of the inspectors visual inspection In my opinion both of these finishes would have met the same standard of finish though widely differing in appearance. The standards were specified in the USA by a letter or number within check mark touching the surface. such as P = Polished, G = Finish Grind 1 = Fine machine finish, 2 = medium machine finish, 3 = Rough machine finish, 4 = rough hand grind, 5 = Burned surface or rough scale surface. I feel that the finish that we are seeing would meet the V2 finish standard. Which was the usual finish for non critical surfaces, called good machining practice Today the standards are specified as V1, to V500 Where the digits are measured in micro inches. As Best I remember, ViggoG

08-02-2003, 07:06 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Pete, I have a 1915 DWM, a 1917 Artillery, and a 1917 Navy which have the long striations, and a 1918 Artillery and a DWM P-08 Commercial which do not. --Dwight