Hollow Wooden Stock/Holster

Luke · 12-30-2003, 01:20 PM

I know that some discussion took place earlier, but am unable to find it.

What is the story behind these? Did they ever go into production? Were they for the artillery Luger only?

I see reproduction stock/holsters on eBay which fit the artillery Lugers. Does anyone know the period and source of manufacture? Value of repros? Can a repro be legally used with an artillery Luger?

Thanks,
Luke

John Sabato · 12-30-2003, 02:16 PM

Luke, to the best of my knowledge, these types of stocks have not been placed on the ATF C&R exemption list... Unless you can find documentation produced by ATF on these specific types of stocks, then attachment to ANY Luger would be a violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934 by "making" a short barreled rifle (SBR).

Mauro Baudino, Moderator of our Artillery Luger Forum would be the best source of historical information on the likelihood that this is a historically accurate Luger stock reproduction...

If you can locate an historical reference, I can't see any valid reason why ATF would not look favorably upon an individual's (you) request to add this type of stock to the C&R exemption list...

please post here if you find out anything on this subject.

mauro · 12-30-2003, 03:34 PM

Hello Luke,
I guess you are speaking about this holster/stock: (click on the image to see it full size)

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_ari_stock_01.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_ari_stock_01.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

This kind of holster/stock was used together with the 1912-1913 LP08 pre-production. It was possible to put this stock in a particular pig-skin holster produced by Eugen Huber Militaryeffecten located in Berlin.

This stock solution was not retained and the rig we currently know was approved for issue.

A reproduction of this stock/holster is now sold by the german Transarms for about 590 Euros.
You can have a look at my web site and also at my book that describes in detail the pre-production LP08 and relevant accessories.
Happy 2004.
Ciao

Luke · 12-30-2003, 05:08 PM

Hello Mauro,

Thank you for the information. The stock you show in the picture is EXACTLY like the one I just bought for SIGNIFICANTLY less than 590 Euros. Is the stock in the picture one of the German reproductions? Do you know anything about the history and reasons for making these repros? Are they legal in Europe?

Not too sure why I bought something that I could not legally shoot in this country, but it is an interesting item anyway. As an ardent woodworker I had even thought about making one of these.

The one I bought is in perfect condition, but is NOT made of walnut

. It is a lighter wood which has been stained.

Again, thanks for your help.

Regards,
Luke

Ron Wood · 12-30-2003, 10:26 PM

Luke,
The repros I have seen did not have a very good wood to metal fit on the attaching iron, in fact you could see daylight from one side to the other! How is yours?

Luke · 12-31-2003, 04:59 AM

Hi Ron -

The fit is not exact. I am unable to see daylight through the area, but the wood is not perfectly cut to match the metal. Otherwise the unit is in excellent shape. The biggest disappointment is that the wood is not actually walnut, rather some less expensive, softer, lighter-colored wood (maybe birch) which has been stained to appear to be dark walnut. It has absolutely no markings of any kind, so I have no clue as to its origin.

Luke

mauro · 12-31-2003, 08:56 AM

Hello Luke,
yes the holster/stock is the current reproduction sold in German (I don't know if this item is made in Germany)
I don't know the reasos why this item has been reproducing.
As far as the European law concerns, you has to know that there isn't a community law in Europe right now. In Italy is not forbidden at all for the moment but I don't know in the future!!
It becomes more and more difficult to practice our passion for Luger and others guns.
Happy 2004.
Ciao
Mauro

Luke · 12-31-2003, 10:30 AM

Ron -

After looking at the stock in more detail, I am pretty sure this is the problem you mentioned.
See picture.

Luke

Luke · 12-31-2003, 10:33 AM

Another view.

Ron Wood · 12-31-2003, 10:40 AM

Actually, that is a little bit better than the ones I have seen.

Lugerdoc · 12-31-2003, 10:59 AM

Ron et al, About 10 years ago Tom Nelson of Collector's Armoury in VA. commissioned the old Radom factory in Poland, to build a few of these stocks, along with repro Radom stocks from the original drawings and some solid stocks for the luger carbine. To my knowledge, all have been sold. TH

Ron Wood · 12-31-2003, 11:17 AM

Tom,
I think those are the stocks I saw at Tulsa, probably 6-8 years ago.

Daniel · 01-01-2004, 03:38 PM

In the year 2000,as I recall,NAPCA members were offered a 10% discount on " Model 1913 Artillery Luger" hollow stocks.It was identical to the one shown on page 390 in Kenyon's LAR. The manufacturer was Craft Apple Works and were distributed through KEY II inc, 3000 South Eads St.,Arlington, Va.The discounted price was $535 + S&H.
The artillery luger fit inside the stock was perfect, the attaching iron needed a little 'tinkering' to lock on to the stock lug, they were made of walnut and the workmanship was excellent. Because it was about two inches longer than a standard artie stock,when assembled and brought up to your shoulder, it definitely had the feel of a small rifle and was extremely accurate.

12-30-2003, 01:20 PM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Hollow Wooden Stock/Holster I know that some discussion took place earlier, but am unable to find it. What is the story behind these? Did they ever go into production? Were they for the artillery Luger only? I see reproduction stock/holsters on eBay which fit the artillery Lugers. Does anyone know the period and source of manufacture? Value of repros? Can a repro be legally used with an artillery Luger? Thanks, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-30-2003, 02:16 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Luke, to the best of my knowledge, these types of stocks have not been placed on the ATF C&R exemption list... Unless you can find documentation produced by ATF on these specific types of stocks, then attachment to ANY Luger would be a violation of the National Firearms Act of 1934 by "making" a short barreled rifle (SBR). Mauro Baudino, Moderator of our Artillery Luger Forum would be the best source of historical information on the likelihood that this is a historically accurate Luger stock reproduction... If you can locate an historical reference, I can't see any valid reason why ATF would not look favorably upon an individual's (you) request to add this type of stock to the C&R exemption list... please post here if you find out anything on this subject. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-30-2003, 03:34 PM	#3
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Luke, I guess you are speaking about this holster/stock: (click on the image to see it full size) <a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_ari_stock_01.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08_ari_stock_01.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> This kind of holster/stock was used together with the 1912-1913 LP08 pre-production. It was possible to put this stock in a particular pig-skin holster produced by Eugen Huber Militaryeffecten located in Berlin. This stock solution was not retained and the rig we currently know was approved for issue. A reproduction of this stock/holster is now sold by the german Transarms for about 590 Euros. You can have a look at my web site and also at my book that describes in detail the pre-production LP08 and relevant accessories. Happy 2004. Ciao __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

12-30-2003, 05:08 PM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Hello Mauro, Thank you for the information. The stock you show in the picture is EXACTLY like the one I just bought for SIGNIFICANTLY less than 590 Euros. Is the stock in the picture one of the German reproductions? Do you know anything about the history and reasons for making these repros? Are they legal in Europe? Not too sure why I bought something that I could not legally shoot in this country, but it is an interesting item anyway. As an ardent woodworker I had even thought about making one of these. The one I bought is in perfect condition, but is NOT made of walnut . It is a lighter wood which has been stained. Again, thanks for your help. Regards, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-30-2003, 10:26 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,034 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,238 Times in 1,718 Posts	Luke, The repros I have seen did not have a very good wood to metal fit on the attaching iron, in fact you could see daylight from one side to the other! How is yours? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-31-2003, 04:59 AM	#6
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Hi Ron - The fit is not exact. I am unable to see daylight through the area, but the wood is not perfectly cut to match the metal. Otherwise the unit is in excellent shape. The biggest disappointment is that the wood is not actually walnut, rather some less expensive, softer, lighter-colored wood (maybe birch) which has been stained to appear to be dark walnut. It has absolutely no markings of any kind, so I have no clue as to its origin. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-31-2003, 08:56 AM	#7
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Luke, yes the holster/stock is the current reproduction sold in German (I don't know if this item is made in Germany) I don't know the reasos why this item has been reproducing. As far as the European law concerns, you has to know that there isn't a community law in Europe right now. In Italy is not forbidden at all for the moment but I don't know in the future!! It becomes more and more difficult to practice our passion for Luger and others guns. Happy 2004. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

12-31-2003, 10:30 AM	#8
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Ron - After looking at the stock in more detail, I am pretty sure this is the problem you mentioned. See picture. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-31-2003, 10:33 AM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Another view. __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

12-31-2003, 10:40 AM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,034 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,238 Times in 1,718 Posts	Actually, that is a little bit better than the ones I have seen. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-31-2003, 10:59 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Ron et al, About 10 years ago Tom Nelson of Collector's Armoury in VA. commissioned the old Radom factory in Poland, to build a few of these stocks, along with repro Radom stocks from the original drawings and some solid stocks for the luger carbine. To my knowledge, all have been sold. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-31-2003, 11:17 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,034 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,238 Times in 1,718 Posts	Tom, I think those are the stocks I saw at Tulsa, probably 6-8 years ago. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-01-2004, 03:38 PM	#13
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In the year 2000,as I recall,NAPCA members were offered a 10% discount on " Model 1913 Artillery Luger" hollow stocks.It was identical to the one shown on page 390 in Kenyon's LAR. The manufacturer was Craft Apple Works and were distributed through KEY II inc, 3000 South Eads St.,Arlington, Va.The discounted price was $535 + S&H. The artillery luger fit inside the stock was perfect, the attaching iron needed a little 'tinkering' to lock on to the stock lug, they were made of walnut and the workmanship was excellent. Because it was about two inches longer than a standard artie stock,when assembled and brought up to your shoulder, it definitely had the feel of a small rifle and was extremely accurate.